Son has signed out

It can also be extremely convenient to put the onus on the estranged parent Brueger; that doesn't really fix anything in the long run either does it.

Oh sorry, I was meaning to reply to Norah & Smileless, but failed dismally!

Yes, me too, and it really helps to understand how the other person feels.

Oh yes, I totally agree 👍🏼

stillawipp

I think it is sometimes useful to think of the last time you had a disagreement with someone where you were really hurt by it and convinced you were absolutely right and felt that you had been treated really badly ….now imagine that person then turns round & says to you that the way you’ve treated them it’s cruel and they deserve better etc etc…. How would you take that? If the answer is badly, then you know how the other person feels in the current situation

Better happy than insisting you are right, opinion.

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They estrange to prevent their life being destroyed not always Brueger.

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I'm sure a lot of us have had that experience stillawipp, I know I have.

I think it is sometimes useful to think of the last time you had a disagreement with someone where you were really hurt by it and convinced you were absolutely right and felt that you had been treated really badly ….now imagine that person then turns round & says to you that the way you’ve treated them it’s cruel and they deserve better etc etc…. How would you take that? If the answer is badly, then you know how the other person feels in the current situation

The problem for me with your post @ 13.49 stillawipp is that you twisted what the OP had actually posted.

It is not my personal situation that has coloured my view of what you said, it's your advice not being based on what has happened as your misrepresentation of her post clearly shows.

The OP had and for sometime has been trying to initiate a connection keepingquiet. I agree that parental love is unconditional but having unconditional love means you love someone in spite of what they say or do, it doesn't mean that you should take whatever's thrown at you without ever defending and/or protecting yourself.

All relationships need give and take. No relationship can be based on one giving and the other taking while giving nothing and mature adults usually know this.

The best thing IMO is for TopNan to leave things as they are in the hope that at some point her son will want her in his life and initiate contact.

Having read OPs response I can see how the relationship may have broken down.

I am now leaning more towards Stillawipp's position in that making statements like 'deserving better,' and 'the sacrifices made' etc are not helpful when trying to initiate a connection.

Adult children don't want to hear these kind of statements from someone who also says they love them. Parental love is unconditional and self-sacrificing in its nature, but when children grow up we have to stop seeing them so much as extensions of our own needs and as mature adults in their own right.

I think OP will find it hard to have worthwhile contact if she insists and getting 'something' back in return.

It is harsh but some self-reflection is called for here. I am not justifying son's behaviour either, or defending him- but it seems the relationship needs a great deal of water to flow under the bridge before there is any chance of improving the situation.

Yes, Smileless2012, you’re absolutely right, and by the same token not everyone is as unlucky as you, and it is only right that that perspective is allowed to be represented on here too.
I’m not going to argue any of your points with you, incredibly patronising as they are, as it is pointless and won’t help the OP - suffice to say that your own situation has, as always, coloured your view of what I have actually said.
OP, I am merely suggesting that you listen to advice from those who have come through estrangement as well as those who haven’t. If that is not what you want then I will gladly leave you to the others.

It doesn't help TopNan when you twist in your response what she actually posted stillawipp.

She sent her son a message which said "I still love you. Whenever you're ready". His response was "do not contact me" and then he deleted her from the family group, blocked her number and told neighbours not to let her near the house for family things.

She then tried "one last conciliatory message" before telling him she felt she deserved better.

IMO your's is not an honest view. It is coloured as it so often is by your own situation which saw you successfully reconciled with the son who estranged you.

You didn't successfully end your family's estrangement, you and your son managed this between you because your son wanted to reconcile as much as you did.

Unless the estranging AC wants to reconcile there can be no reconciliation. Please try and remember that not everyone's as fortunate as you have been. Not every EAC seeks reconciliation and unless they do, for many EP's it will never happen.

So sad for you Topnan
Several years ago, I had similar problems, with my middle son, the memories of the ‘names’ he called me, still hurt.
His mother-in-law takes pride in saying she hated her mother. So the vibes around them, are far from good.
Things are ok now, but I dread family get togethers, which happens about 2 or 3 times a year (birthdays etc). He and his sister don’t get on either.
I hardly see them, even though they live just a 10 minute drive away. I would love to see the GC more than I do.
It’s half term hols now, so I asked them to bring the girls over, but oh no - they have lots of plans/activities. So be it.
I am the forgiving type - no point in getting upset.
Take care Topnan and look after yourself

OP, I’m really sorry that you are now worse off than you were before, but not at all surprised. Your conciliatory message to your son told him that you were sad and you deserved better after everything you had done for him and everything you had sacrificed for him, and then you called him cruel, and now you’re surprised that didn’t work???
As long as you are so angry and unable to see how that might have been received, I think no contact is absolutely the right decision. If and when you reach the point where you lose the anger, can consider things from his point of view and make any contact more about him rather than yourself, that would be the time to try again.
Yes, you can ‘stand up for yourself’ refuse to ‘grovel’, and tell yourself “why should I” if you like, but I can guarantee that you’ll never get your son back if you do. Is that worth it?
I’m really sorry to be so harsh, but you have had plenty of sympathy and support so far from those still estranged, and sometimes an honest view from someone with a different perspective is more useful to you.
There is a longstanding support thread for those who are still estranged, and I make no judgement on those who are in that awful situation, but this is just my contribution based on my experience of having successfully ended my family’s estrangement.

It's up to TopNan's son now InRainbows. She's told him she loves him; the 'ball's in his court'.

TopNanl

Well I thought I’d update since so many of you were so wonderfully supportive. I did exactly what some of you suggested. I stopped chasing him, I stopped apologising for things I don’t think I did, and I started looking after myself. I even took the brave route of putting a small message up on his upcoming birthday so he’d know I still love him (I said “I still love you. Whenever you’re ready”). Honest to God I thought that would soften him.
What happened instead has been unbearable. He replied to my birthday message with a single line. “Do not contact me.” Then he deleted me from the family group and blocked my numbe!, and told our neighbours not to let me near the house for family things.
I tried one last conciliatory message since then, and I wrote to him that I was sad and that I deserved a little more kindness after everything I’ve done for him. Someone here said I shouldn't grovel, so I added that “cutting me off feels cruel given what I’ve sacrificed.” He answered by calling me “toxic” and not good enough as a parent. Me!! For saying I’m hurt. I don’t have a high opinion of myself, I always say that, but I am not this monster he paints me to be.
So now I’m heartbroken and angry. I’ve started telling people quietly that if he wants to make this mean he never sees me or the grandchildren again, that’s his choice but I’ll not be diminished. People here suggested telling him in a birthday card how much I love him and that cutting ties was unforgivable; I did just that, because I refuse to be the only one being kind. Maybe that was stupid. Maybe that pushed him further. Maybe he’ll never speak again. But at least I stood up for myself instead of swallowing everything and pretending I’m fine.
Some days I wish I could be the forgiving, sensible parent that everyone praises! Other days I think why should I be the one always to bend? If he wants to be cold, let him be cold. He’s the one who’s lost the family, not me. I’m still crying, but I’m not grovelling. I’m giving myself permission to be hurt and furious at the same time. If that makes me petty, then so be it.

This is a terrible shame for both of you. Your comments to him are open to so many interpretations. I don't know where you could possibly go from here for the relationship but I do hope you find a way to manage those feelings.

wouldn't wish should have been 'would wish'.

Hello again TopNan. Feeling angry and hurt at the same time doesn't make you petty, it means you are human .

at least I stood up for myself instead of swallowing everything and pretending I'm fine good for you. It's not what everyone in your position would do but it's what we did almost 13 years ago when we lost our youngest son and only GC, and have never regretted it because it was the right thing for us.

Over the years here on GN and a couple of other online sites, I've seen that not all EP's take the same route and I've also seen that regardless it makes no difference to the outcome.

If your AC doesn't want you in their life then you're out and the only chance of reconciliation is if they change their mind. Those of us who are estranged experience a living bereavement as we work through our grief for the loss of our child who hasn't died. We grieve for the relationship we had or in our case, thought we had and we grieve for the loss of a life we thought we would have. The joy of being a parent to our adult child and grand parent to their children.

You now know where you stand, in a 'place' that anyone whose experienced it wouldn't wish on their worse enemy and you must do whatever it takes to get through it.

Cry, scream, shout and/or hit something if that helps. Don't regard your anger as a negative because it can be a positive. It can make us determined to not give up, to refuse to curl up into a ball of misery because in the beginning, that's all you want to do.

As Whiff has posted Estranged children think they can destroy us; they are wrong. You have children and GC who love you, so concentrate on them. See your son's blocking you from the family group and blocking your number as doing you a favour, because he has.

It takes away the temptation of seeing what he and the children are doing which will only make your estrangement all the more difficult to cope with. It takes away the temptation of calling him, just to be brutally dismissed again.

You are not alone, as Whiff's told you there's a support thread here on this forum which has literally been a life saver to me and many others.

x

Oh Top Nan, something has gone so wrong here hasn't it?

Terribly sorry to read this. Please take care of yourself.

That must have been so painful for you TopNan, and believe me I know how it feels to be treated like this, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
You are a human being before you are a mum so you have every right to feel hurt and furious. Anybody in your position would feel likewise. Some may come on here and say you shouldn’t make this about you, that it should be about how your son is feeling, I imagine they have never been hurt like this, how can you not feel this way and not want your son to know that he is causing this?
We have a right to our feelings.
But for your own well-being you must stop sending messages of any kind and concentrate on your own life with your other ACs who must be worried about you.
Your son will not respond well to any contact right now and has made his feelings clear. Hurtful and heartbreaking as it is, nothing can change this right now.
Take a break and find calm in whichever way you can for life really is too short.
All the best.
Xx

TopNan never blame yourself your son made his choice. My son made his I will always love him but the kind loving son I had for 32 years. He is now a stranger to me . He is now 38. I will never forgive or forget what he and my daughter in law put me through. He called me vindictive and manipulative and said zero contact. So his has his wish. The hardest thing for me was realising my son is a cruel coward as he cut ties with me via email and letter . But not just me but all our side of the family.

But I know he would never have the guts to say what he did in his email to my face plus I know my daughter in law had a hand in that as no spelling ,grammar or punctuation mistakes. The letter was pure him .

Took me 3 years to decide to give up any hope of seeing or hearing from him again. And have been happier since. He is a stranger to me but I am no longer the mom he knew I have no tolerance for bad behaviour.

My husband dieing hurts me more than what my son has done . If people ask me if I have children always say 2 and 5 grandson's. If they ask do I see them all I say no . If they ask why I tell them . I have nothing to be ashamed of my son made his choice I never saw it coming . But it has amazed me how many people in real life have told me they don't see a child or children and grandchildren.

You are not being petty never think that for a minute . And ignore anyone who says nasty things about you or to you . You will have some nasty comments from some posters but ignore them as they do the same to every estranged parent . In their eyes it's always the parents fault . But they have most likely have done it to their own parents . But won't admit it.

Join the support thread and be amongst a lovely group it's been going over 12 years . It was my lifeline but we talk about everything. Estrangement is just a small part of our lives but you can live with it . Estrangement is called a living grief. But it isn't live the grief I and many others feel everyday over the death of a spouse or partner . The grief parents feel over the death of children is the worst of all griefs . But I can't comment further on that as I only write about my own experiences.

You have other children so you are a wonderful mom . I have a daughter,son in law and 2 grandsons who I see regularly. Estranged children think they can destroy us they are wrong .

Nothing is quite as painful as estrangement from a child - I am so sorry that you have to suffer this. It really is heartache. I hope that as time passes your son will think long and hard about what he has said, as you have obviously thought about your behaviour and feelings, and posted on GN. If you are available for phone calls or visits, and remain calm and gentle if/ when you do see him, this miserable situation may well change and resolve with time. I hope so - and please don't take notice of unpleasant posts. You have to wonder what is wrong with some people.