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Estrangement

Near Estrangment but confused about something

(230 Posts)
Starfire57 Mon 22-Dec-25 04:04:15

I have been having issues with my daughter ever since her husband left her. And she has a best friend, since high school, who claims she was abused. I don't know if that is true or not, but, seems my daughter talks a lot about and has now claimed she was an abused child.

She even is starting to make my grandkids think I am not safe in some way or was a bad parent/grandparent. They told me and it suck that the oldest one seems to believe it. The youngest told me she doesn't believe it.

Anyway, this is complete fabrication and I am thought maybe the best friend has been projecting her childhood onto my daughter.

My confusion is, when I offered to discuss the alledged abuse, she got mad that I didn't believe or acknowledge she was abused.

I went mad trying to get just ONE example. Just ONE. A long message conversation with me offering to talk in person or at least give one example on the messages.

She kept ranting about me and how I act, called me psychotic if I am called out on something.

Well, I have recently been deciding when she does say something very untrue to me, I don't agree with her. I've always been more of a silent person when attacked, will just leave the room, ignore it, etc. but lately I decided to at least basically defend myself like most people would.

Not arguing, just saying yeah no that's not true kinda thing. No big deal. That's now psychotic in her view.

Anyway my question is, has anyone here had an experience that when you ask about abuse, with the tone of if I did something I will apologize kinda thing, that then the adult child avoids, attacks and basically never tell you what you did?

It's completely maddening. You feel so hurt yet you are trying to understand by getting an answer. It's looney.

So finally, she mentioned children need to feel safe. I had a husband who yelled at me all the time. I thought ok, so maybe she was scared of him?

That's reasonable I think with a young child. But that's not abuse if I didn't know she was scared at times. Most the time she was always smiling. I can't read minds.

I told her if just once she told me she was scared, I may have tried to help her. But not knowing her feelings isn't abuse, it's lack of knowledge.

No matter, I told her I had no idea, that what she said was valid. Yet she still insisted she was abused and she said I won't accept it.

Again, how can you accept what exactly?

Don't kids know what happened?

I read about Mackalay Culkin and his story about his dad slapping him across the face and how Culkin said he had no bed to sleep on while his dad had a large comfy bed, etc.

He had examples of abuse.

What is the deal when an adult child can give no examples?

No clues? and the idea when you say you are ready to listen anyway, they don't want to talk or they avoid/distract with their opinions of your behaviors rather than on the subject of the abuse?

It got to the point of so many horrid accusations of abuse, again, using only the word abuse, even saying I do it with my grandchildren (too many hugs? idk?)

Now I am worried this will end badly. I did acknowledge her fear as a kid. But this is kinda nuts. Anyone who knows what this is, give me a clue.

I feel like the best friend projected so much of her own childhood now that my daughter thinks it's hers. I mean, she's known the friend for decades but seems now that her husband took off on her leaving her a single mom with 2 kids, it seems now something is seriously wrong. A couple of years ago, when her husband first left, she talked alot about her friend helping abused kids, and there was a predator defense protocol that the friend told her about for kids.

She used it one day to throw me out after I teared up a little when she yelled at me.

I never asked her why she used that. But she's a grown adult.

It's mental.

Does anyone know what this is?

Unity Fri 02-Jan-26 09:11:58

'While yes things were not great the way I was treated, the idea I allowed or did any kind of abuse to the kids I loved more than anyone or anything is sickening to me and so far from the truth its almost laughable.'

But you did. Inadvertently no doubt, but you allowed your child to grow up in an environment where abuse was present, and are still with the abuser. That is what is a called an ACE (Adverse Childhood Experience) and can be very damaging to children.
I agree that therapy would be really useful for you, to come to terms with what happened and begin to see things from your daughter's point of view).

Unity Fri 02-Jan-26 09:08:02

The op was a victim of her husband, but her daughter was a victim as well. Growing up in a home where a child witnesses abuse is itself abusive.

Madgran77 Fri 02-Jan-26 09:06:09

*I am not sure if all that applies since I was the one being verbally abused . She has no abuse memories to start with to repress.
Even if me being yelled at all the time scared her, that isn't abuse. It isn't great to witness, but it isn't abuse upon her.*

You have a very very narrow understanding of abuse I'm afraid especially on a child. I hope you find answers but I am not sure you will find them on this thread

Grams2five Fri 02-Jan-26 06:06:27

And what you are failing to grasp, or. More likely refusing to accept is that you are , in this case both the victim and a silent perpetrator. It was your job to protect your children from growing up in an abusive household. You failed to do so. I apprecIte that as a victim also that was a hard place for you to stand up for them but you still should have. Even now you continue to remain with the person who rendered their home abusive jor to even acknowledge , accept and attempt to apologize for your failure to protect. Of course your daughter is allowed to have feelings about that. What’s more she’s right to protect her own children from exposure to those who might fault to protect them as well

IAmTooYoungForHere Fri 02-Jan-26 00:42:48

I have never seen anyone deflect so much. No introspection, no reflection, no acknowledgement of any opinion different from your own.

Everyone else is wrong and you are right.

You sound so much like an elderly woman I know, so much.

And your daughter’s friend was ‘not like us’. Come on!

I think Allsorts is correct.

Allsorts Thu 01-Jan-26 22:40:30

I am sorry to say I think this post is not genuine it is purely to disrupt.

Starfire57 Thu 01-Jan-26 22:16:40

Look, I appreciate many of the comments here.

I am in bizzaro land with all this, the Twilight Zone. While yes things were not great the way I was treated, the idea I allowed or did any kind of abuse to the kids I loved more than anyone or anything is sickening to me and so far from the truth its almost laughable.

Its like her friend just convinced her and this friend had so many issues with her weight (morbidly obese ), sexuality(bi?) religion ( Catholic turned Wiccan) and alcohol/drug use

If not for my daughter getting ulcerative colitis, I am guessing alcohol and drugs would also be a problem right now. But she can't overdue either because of it. But she did before.

I found out the friend introduced pot and whisky to my daughter in the last year of high school.

I thought their sleepovers were movies and popcorn.

My daughter hid it well and at 18 years old I trusted her.

And I thought she followed my example as a parent who was a tea drinker. I tried alcohol when first married and decided, I just didn't like it. I think its unhealthy.

That alone shows parents teachings get completely ignored sometimes.
Yet, we still get the blame.

Starfire57 Thu 01-Jan-26 21:57:57

User138562

For those who don't believe in recovering repressed memories of abuse: www.ptsduk.org/what-is-ptsd/complex-ptsd/

Please read the page because there is a lot of good information there. But for convenience here's some of the info about memory.

"If someone is exposed to an intensely fearful and traumatic situation, their body and mind ‘suspends’ normal operations such as digestion, memory processing, skin healing etc and it copes as well as it can in order to survive, perhaps getting ready to run, fight or freeze to the spot.

This means that the mind does not produce a memory for this traumatic event in the ‘normal’ way – and if this is a repeated, continuous or multiple traumas, there are many memories that are ‘unprocessed’.

Under normal/non-traumatic circumstances, when information comes into our memory system (from sensory input such as what we can see, hear, taste, and smell), it needs to be changed into a form that the system can cope with, so that it can be stored. If the encoding doesn’t take place due to repeated traumas – the memory can’t be processed. Instead, it is stored randomly, in pieces, in a variety of places within the brain.

Eventually, when the mind presents any of the ‘memories’ of the traumas for ‘filing’, or it is triggered by a smell, a place, or a person etc, it does not recognise them as memories. As it understands, ‘the brain is in the middle of the dangerous event – it is not ‘outside’ looking in at this event, and therefore the entire system is not easily subject to rational control.’ These flashbacks are incredibly distressing. Reliving the traumas as if they were happening RIGHT NOW. The elements such as the facts of what happened, the emotions associated with the trauma and the sensations touch, taste, sound, vision, movement, and smell can be presented by the mind as real time information. They may also present as nightmares, and intrusive unwanted memories."

I am not sure if all that applies since I was the one being verbally abused . She has no abuse memories to start with to repress.
Even if me being yelled at all the time scared her, that isn't abuse. It isn't great to witness, but it isn't abuse upon her.

And even that, I have to question. Not one time during her childhood did she express any sort of fear, whether in her facial expressions or words.

Tell truth half the time the kids didn't even notice....I never escalated the events....in fact pretty much either just said ok to him or would leave the room. In other words there was no time where it was a case of typical having a yelling match, or a type of typical scary fight of screaming back and forth, throwing things, etc.

It was mainly him degrading me in front of the kids, like I didn't do things the way he thought I should, I was stupid, I lied, etc...I left the light on in the garage type stuff.

I think it didn't help that he is one of those people with a booming low voice....one time a neighbor asked me what my husband was yelling about when I was outside and when I went into the house he was on the phone in a normal conversation with a work friend. He's just a loud person to start with.

But yes he always degraded me ,which even without yelling, caused an impression on ny kids I believe.

Starfire57 Thu 01-Jan-26 21:33:12

Unity

You admit that your daughter grew up in an abusive household. I think she is entitled to feel upset about that, and reflect on how it has impacted her life. She is also entitled to keep her children away from the woman that she holds somewhat responsible for that abuse.

You are literally blaming the victim here.

Smileless2012 Thu 01-Jan-26 20:19:02

Repressed memories of abuse coming to the surface is in itself a traumatic experience and I'm not aware that anyone here has said they don't believe that this can happen.

User138562 Thu 01-Jan-26 19:46:21

For those who don't believe in recovering repressed memories of abuse: www.ptsduk.org/what-is-ptsd/complex-ptsd/

Please read the page because there is a lot of good information there. But for convenience here's some of the info about memory.

"If someone is exposed to an intensely fearful and traumatic situation, their body and mind ‘suspends’ normal operations such as digestion, memory processing, skin healing etc and it copes as well as it can in order to survive, perhaps getting ready to run, fight or freeze to the spot.

This means that the mind does not produce a memory for this traumatic event in the ‘normal’ way – and if this is a repeated, continuous or multiple traumas, there are many memories that are ‘unprocessed’.

Under normal/non-traumatic circumstances, when information comes into our memory system (from sensory input such as what we can see, hear, taste, and smell), it needs to be changed into a form that the system can cope with, so that it can be stored. If the encoding doesn’t take place due to repeated traumas – the memory can’t be processed. Instead, it is stored randomly, in pieces, in a variety of places within the brain.

Eventually, when the mind presents any of the ‘memories’ of the traumas for ‘filing’, or it is triggered by a smell, a place, or a person etc, it does not recognise them as memories. As it understands, ‘the brain is in the middle of the dangerous event – it is not ‘outside’ looking in at this event, and therefore the entire system is not easily subject to rational control.’ These flashbacks are incredibly distressing. Reliving the traumas as if they were happening RIGHT NOW. The elements such as the facts of what happened, the emotions associated with the trauma and the sensations touch, taste, sound, vision, movement, and smell can be presented by the mind as real time information. They may also present as nightmares, and intrusive unwanted memories."

Unity Thu 01-Jan-26 18:43:15

You admit that your daughter grew up in an abusive household. I think she is entitled to feel upset about that, and reflect on how it has impacted her life. She is also entitled to keep her children away from the woman that she holds somewhat responsible for that abuse.

DiamondLily Thu 01-Jan-26 09:00:00

Starfire57

MarieElla

So why would her ex tell YOU he didn't love her anymore?
If he was confiding in you about thete relationship, you were being disloyal to your daughter.

Well, actually, there was no discussion of their relationship at all........I was trying to advocate for her. I was messaging him, as he did try to reach out to my husband and me..... I literally begged him to reconsider. To value the love he and she had for each other and not throw it away for lust.

To go to marriage counseling and we'd pay for it.

THAT's when he said he didn't love her anymore. You think that didn't hurt me to the core?

The idea of that kind of pain inflicted on your child? But now, she's paid that forward and inflicted it on me. Not fair.

Marriages break up every day of the week, my first one did, so she really needs to get over it. Of course she was upset, but she should consider her children and stop frothing around taking it out on everyone else. 🤷‍♀️

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors, and he decided he’d had enough, and left her. It happens.

If she carries on like this she will damage her children emotionally, which isn’t good parenting.

Perhaps she should think about that. 🙄

Starfire57 Thu 01-Jan-26 07:38:43

Allsorts

. Just listen to yourself and keep busy, let her be.

No, not gonna give up on the grandkids just yet. They are the only reason I still even talk to her. I mean, I love her, it hurts, but I am not one to put up with jerks. She's being a jerk. But grandkids are attached to her, so I won't give up on them, they are angels and very loving towards me...unless the bad things she says finally works on them, perhaps it won't, I hope, I mean, kids are a lot smarter these days.

Allsorts Thu 01-Jan-26 07:29:11

. Just listen to yourself and keep busy, let her be.

Starfire57 Thu 01-Jan-26 00:18:07

MarieElla

So why would her ex tell YOU he didn't love her anymore?
If he was confiding in you about thete relationship, you were being disloyal to your daughter.

Well, actually, there was no discussion of their relationship at all........I was trying to advocate for her. I was messaging him, as he did try to reach out to my husband and me..... I literally begged him to reconsider. To value the love he and she had for each other and not throw it away for lust.

To go to marriage counseling and we'd pay for it.

THAT's when he said he didn't love her anymore. You think that didn't hurt me to the core?

The idea of that kind of pain inflicted on your child? But now, she's paid that forward and inflicted it on me. Not fair.

Starfire57 Thu 01-Jan-26 00:12:57

Allsorts

Leave them alone then. However I think you want control and do not appear to care about your daughters feelings, it is all about you. I feel sorry for your daughter. I would move countries if I were her.

Judgemental much?

MarieElla Wed 31-Dec-25 23:32:17

So why would her ex tell YOU he didn't love her anymore?
If he was confiding in you about thete relationship, you were being disloyal to your daughter.

Allsorts Wed 31-Dec-25 23:00:12

Leave them alone then. However I think you want control and do not appear to care about your daughters feelings, it is all about you. I feel sorry for your daughter. I would move countries if I were her.

Starfire57 Wed 31-Dec-25 22:42:42

Allsorts

Whatever the truth of this, its a very toxic environment for the daughter and grandchildren. They need distance. Leave the past where is and don’t let it influence now.

True, my daughter is creating a toxic environment by constantly criticizing her mother to her children.

Starfire57 Wed 31-Dec-25 22:38:05

InRainbows

I think this is one of those situations that cannot be helped. Denialism is a real thing. Any advice or comment that doesn't fit is just disregarded, glossed over.or reframed. That's why there is no anger. We truly cannot help this situation. You cannot help someone reason themselves out of a position they didn't reason themselves into

If there is an angry response that means there is doubt or shame involved. Either someone knows they are actually the one to blame or they fear that may be the case and maybe reason can get through.

When there is no angry response just a systematic rejection of advice or comments it's because there is no ability for self reflection at all which can become very frustrating when trying to help

What we are seeing is a defence mechanism. Sadly very few ways to overcome that and I think estrangement may be one of them if and when a situation is more uncomfortable than simply seeing yourself as the victim/blameless

It's truly sad but again, not deliberate on the part of the person whose mind copes this way. Even therapy would likely do little to help

She has shown anger towards me. Now, I feel the same but with the hurt too, because I still have love for her, that I am sure she doesn't feel towards me. She's happy when I am hurt, makes her feel powerful, the power she did not have with her husband.

I mean, he literally told me he didn't love her anymore. She has no power with him and she needs that to cope and I am the scapegoat.

It's cruel. And uncalled for.

Denial is one thing. The truth is another.

Starfire57 Wed 31-Dec-25 21:17:47

Smileless2012

Thank you Starfire, I hope that it's helped knowing that you and I have had very similar experiences.

You're spot on when you say it's like someone has changed your family and the life you had into something you never had, and your memories of things that never existed.

I understand that for you it also feels as of your present and future has been taken too. It was like that for us too for many years but eventually we came to realise that those haven't been taken, they've been changed into something completely different.

This has happened for your D too. The life she thought she was going to have was ripped apart when her H left her for another woman.

You say in relation to your marriage and how your H treated you that you wish you could go back, but of course you can't but you can go forward and if he still makes them, challenge his unfounded allegations and challenge your D's too flowers.

Oh my, you really hit it on the head. It is so sad for us, and what could we have done, shielded and hidden our kids from the world and all others? Nope. It is just horrible luck is what it is.

For me, I cannot believe my relationship with my daughter withstood so much (husband and her friend) and came out so wonderful,........ and then with one cruel twist of fate, all of that was torn down.

My ex son in law did rip her apart. Even a new boyfriend now that she has had for the last couple years didn't help. I guess nothing will, permanent damage is what's left.

Good advice on the husband. I do challenge him a lot now, and in front of my son and daughter. But it might be too little too late, you know? And wouldn't it be my luck if I got too harsh that she would take his side now. I wouldn't be surprised at anything anymore.

So, I try to just keep it cool most the time, unless something does need to be addressed.

Especially the assumptions about my own motives and feelings on things; I am tired of being judged, really tired.

It's pretty upsetting when people just think they know you and assume the worst. They have no idea who I am or what I feel....maybe idk, if they really knew, the guilt would eat them up. So we can't have that.

Starfire57 Wed 31-Dec-25 20:52:27

Crossstitchfan

Starfire57. I have worked my way through your extremely lengthy posts, (I personally find such long posts daunting and don’t normally bother to read them, but for some reason, I looked at yours!)
I can’t find any way to answer you. That’s if you even want an answer! As far as i can see, you post to let off steam , more than wanting answers and if that helps you, all well and good. For me, I am totally confused and have no idea what to say! Perhaps I should just be quiet and go away!

Well, thank you for at least reading and taking an interest. This whole thing is exasperating and at this point I really do give up, other than I am hoping my grandkids will at least love me a bit in the end.

I mean, I think she tore it with me, I see someone I continue to reach out to and get rejected every time.

Even the best mom's in the world have limits.

The whole unconditional love thing is a farce. We do need something back. It doesn't have to be equal, or large, just something. The only unconditional part is that we still have love for them, even if we don't like them anymore and could do without their presence and constant criticism.

InRainbows Wed 31-Dec-25 20:11:58

I think this is one of those situations that cannot be helped. Denialism is a real thing. Any advice or comment that doesn't fit is just disregarded, glossed over.or reframed. That's why there is no anger. We truly cannot help this situation. You cannot help someone reason themselves out of a position they didn't reason themselves into

If there is an angry response that means there is doubt or shame involved. Either someone knows they are actually the one to blame or they fear that may be the case and maybe reason can get through.

When there is no angry response just a systematic rejection of advice or comments it's because there is no ability for self reflection at all which can become very frustrating when trying to help

What we are seeing is a defence mechanism. Sadly very few ways to overcome that and I think estrangement may be one of them if and when a situation is more uncomfortable than simply seeing yourself as the victim/blameless

It's truly sad but again, not deliberate on the part of the person whose mind copes this way. Even therapy would likely do little to help

Allsorts Wed 31-Dec-25 18:44:43

Whatever the truth of this, its a very toxic environment for the daughter and grandchildren. They need distance. Leave the past where is and don’t let it influence now.