I hate my DIL and I don’t say that lightly!

keepingquiet

It is not good for the child (ren) to be sat in a car for six hours a day.

I would keep the focus on the children.

I have been in this predicament but luckily DS wasn't married and the relationship ended.

FC have allowed us limited time with GC but the mum is no longer a major part in our lives.

It isn't easy sometimes, but just focus on supporting your son and his kids.

It worked for us.

I don't think it would the children in the car for six hours a day. The way I read it, it would the OP's husband driving to their house and back - at least a three-hour journey each week. Which obviously would be a ridiculous thing to ask anyone to do on a regular basis - different in case of emergencies.

David49

At 18 they made all their own choices parenting was over, they chose boyfriends wisely. A job and a car were essentials and they rented their own place, 2 trained to be Accountants one a midwife, their husbands 2 farmers and a builder.

My wife was very tough with them, no boyfriends until 16, then strict rules on who and where, none of them seriously resisted. A generation on they are just as tough with their own children.
I had no influence, when the eldest was 12 I made some comment, my wife glared at me, I followed her into the kitchen " Darling, if you have any issues with the girls speak to me first, then "I" will decide what to do, all you need to do is back me up".
As for not bringing boyfriends home, they had to learn to live with them, having parents within earshot makes that more difficult.

To be honest, David49, that sounds like your wife is a bit of a control freak. Even though 'my' children were my responsibility, their step-father had my blessing to step in with advice and parenting although he chose to defer to me. When we had a child, it would not have occurred to me that he would have any less say. We did not always agree on the way forward but could discuss anything before coming to an agreement. I wanted my children to respect that my husband had his own opinion and was a parent in his own right so that when they were married, they would understand a good relationship which allows joint decision making, negotiation and being able to voice their own needs.

I hope the DiLs mother isn't on Gransnet. Or if she is perhaps she could chip in and advise us on the 'monster' she brought up.

It is not good for the child (ren) to be sat in a car for six hours a day.

I would keep the focus on the children.

I have been in this predicament but luckily DS wasn't married and the relationship ended.

FC have allowed us limited time with GC but the mum is no longer a major part in our lives.

It isn't easy sometimes, but just focus on supporting your son and his kids.

It worked for us.

TerfGran

Only Son has been married 11 years, DIL is a SAHM and there are 4 amazing children who we have always been close to.

Relationship has been challenging from the beginning, DIL wanted to replicate her ‘wonderful’ upbringing and saw our role as grandparents to do their housework for them so they could have time to create memories with the children. Son is a people pleaser and DIL uses tears whenever she is challenged.

She is very quick to cut folks out if they don’t fall in with her, and even her own mother has apologised to us for ‘creating a monster’.

Over the years we have given them substantial amounts of money and helped no end with DIY.

Last year in the summer my very gently hubbie who idolises the grandkids was asked to look after the youngest one day a week so DIL could return to work. Now get this, it’s a minimum of 3 hours each way to their house!

When he said he didn’t think that would work, we immediately got tears and told that we weren’t family, and weren’t even good grandparents. With that she stormed off to cry in her room. Normally we placate, apologise, agree with her etc just to keep the peace but after 11 years we had had enough and left.

We haven’t seen the children since and it’s destroying us. Saw our son before Christmas and he said he was committed to maintaining a relationship with us and the children but every time I try and speak to him he is dismissive and won’t commit to us seeing the children. She has told a relative that we are dead to her and will never be allowed in her house again.

She is a manipulative abusive woman and I hate her.

How do I get past these feelings?

Try not to annoy her . Your son married her and she is the children's mother so she is in a powerful position.

When you turn down her unworkable ideas do so without rancour and politely. One diplomatic trick would be to calmly agree that her idea is partly a good idea but unfortunately it could not work well enough. Praise her whenever possible---she must have some good points!

What a great post madeleine; I agree with every word.

MILs didn't loose a son they gained a daughter, GC too and that's how it should be David.

At 18 they made all their own choices parenting was over, they chose boyfriends wisely. A job and a car were essentials and they rented their own place, 2 trained to be Accountants one a midwife, their husbands 2 farmers and a builder.

My wife was very tough with them, no boyfriends until 16, then strict rules on who and where, none of them seriously resisted. A generation on they are just as tough with their own children.
I had no influence, when the eldest was 12 I made some comment, my wife glared at me, I followed her into the kitchen " Darling, if you have any issues with the girls speak to me first, then "I" will decide what to do, all you need to do is back me up".
As for not bringing boyfriends home, they had to learn to live with them, having parents within earshot makes that more difficult.

May I make two suggestions. Firstly divide the situation in two. One is your feelings and attitude to your DIL, and the other is the situation with your grandchildren. Regarding the grandchildren, it is sad you can do little at the moment, but could you start at least a folder for each of them. In it you could put the birthday cards you are not allowed to send to them, with a little letter saying what you are doing on that day yourselves, and how you are thinking of them and wondering what they are doing. You could also add a photo of yourselves on their birthdays to sort of show them you being with them in spirit. Add any photos of any changes you are making, so if you change your car, or do something different in the garden, put that in with the date on the back.

If you can afford it also perhaps you might have a saving account for each child, but NOT in their name so that you know it is for them but whilst things are as they are she cannot touch it or manipulate her children later on. Then you could add amounts on birthdays christmas etc etc. Hopefully things might change before then, but if you are not allowed to be in touch with them before they are old enough to choose for themselves, then later when you are able at last to meet up, you will be able to give them the folders. They will have that concrete evidence of your always thinking of them and caring for them, however things have been. I wouldnt mention the savings account in the beginning of your meeting up, as firstly they need to know much more of your loving care than see it as a way to get money. Secondly you might then be able to help them if they go to college or need a car or something important in their life. Just to cover that I would also add a letter to your son, to go with your will to explain exactly what those accounts are meant for. As the situation is now, it might not be safe to tell him now as she might wheedle the information out of him.

Then regarding your dil. Firstly I would go for making a loaf of bread!! It is a winner two ways. You end up with a lovely home made loaf which is much improved by the kneading and punching that you gave it thinking of her at the time. When I feel very angry and upset at things that I cant control , I find it a great way to relieve the feelings. If that is not possible I think finding a plump cushion or pillow and do a fair bit of punching it to think just what you would like to do to her. Of course you are not hurting anyone doing that and it will be good to relieve the feelings and let a bit of adrenalin get used up. Another great thing is if you can drive somewhere way up on a moor or anywhere well away from people and literally stand up and shout and yell. Call her all the names that you think she deserves. Shout I could kill you, and I hate you , at the top of your voice. Then look round at the lovely scenery and promise yourselves that one day you will be able to go there again with your grandchildren . Then if you have brought your thermos with you sit down serenely and have a drink and let the beauty and calmness of your view cheer you. Remember that that view will be there to give you peace and quiet whenever you need it. I promise you it will help to have that place , in your mind as well as actually.

All my life good and bad, my beloved Swaledale has been my place and when I go there it reminds me I am like a speck of sand or soil there but that I belong and whatever happens it is a place that I can visit in reality and in my mind to soothe and calm and cheer me , and puts life in perspective. I do sincerely hope that things improve much sooner than this and hope that something will happen to make your son take a stand and realize that life as it is isnt worth living. Try to keep in touch with him where possible to keep at least a link open with your grandchildren, but I would say little of what you are doing or your plans for the future as things are. Just hope that something like this may help you. Oh and you could also write a really horrible letter to your dil saying all the things you want to say about her as she is right now. Write one each and read each others and then rip them up to shreds and burn then. Another way to help your feelings if it is only to write BITCH BITCH , across a whole sheet of paper.
Wishing you all the best and do keep coming to GN as you will find a very wide variety of experiences and occasionally unkind messages but in the main, people are very supporting, and you see that there are other people in your own similar situation and sometimes there may be ideas that can help, as I hope this might.

David, I cannot understand your post. You say you had 3 daughters who could not bring boyfriends home, yet once married your wife instructed them to make friends with mil. Do they still do everything you and your wife instruct. Mine would have either ignored me or told me not to interfere. I went wrong some where, she no longer speaks to me,

Cossy

Sadly, there’s a saying something like “a daughter is a daughter for the rest of her life, a son is your son til he takes a wife”

Some DiLs are a nightmare, some MiLs are a nightmare.

All we can do is compromise and sometimes tread lightly.

We have a slight problem with our own DiL, she’s lovely in some respects but is very moody, wouldn’t be an issue but they are living with us!

I find if she’s “in a mood” she leaves and arrives home without a “hello” or “goodbye” and virtually ignores us!

I find this so rude, however, in order to keep the peace I just keep quiet (very hard for me haha)

I do think it’s a dreadful way to start one’s married life, living in parents home, with their three dogs, our dog, us and two other adult siblings. I truly believe life will improve when they finally move in! They are looking to buy and have time off next month to look at houses.

🙏🙏 🎉🎉🥳🥳💃🏼🕺

We had 3 daughters, they were never allowed to bring boyfriends home, when the got married my wife instructed them to make friends with MIL.
That worked well, MILs didnt loose a son they gained a daughter, GC too

Let's hope they find somewhere, Cossy 🤞

Sadly, there’s a saying something like “a daughter is a daughter for the rest of her life, a son is your son til he takes a wife”

Some DiLs are a nightmare, some MiLs are a nightmare.

All we can do is compromise and sometimes tread lightly.

We have a slight problem with our own DiL, she’s lovely in some respects but is very moody, wouldn’t be an issue but they are living with us!

I find if she’s “in a mood” she leaves and arrives home without a “hello” or “goodbye” and virtually ignores us!

I find this so rude, however, in order to keep the peace I just keep quiet (very hard for me haha)

I do think it’s a dreadful way to start one’s married life, living in parents home, with their three dogs, our dog, us and two other adult siblings. I truly believe life will improve when they finally move in! They are looking to buy and have time off next month to look at houses.

🙏🙏 🎉🎉🥳🥳💃🏼🕺

MOnica -
I've given up on my daughter in law.
I really can't be bothered with her .
I've tried so hard .
I don't know if she's just plain rude,but as she can be so odd I've wondered about neaurodivergence
It is an expression ,/which is used to excuse everything these days.

My son and dil are unaware of my friendship with her widowed father.
He doesn't dwell on it much ,but his voice broke last time I spoke to him .
He is so distressed by their treatment of him that he's moved away .
He's also appalled at the way that I'm treated .

I have a cousin overseas who did everything for her family, worked all hours, took in lodgers, to pay for her 2 children to go through uni. Now they are established with their rather 'modern' wives, they have dropped her and she is very upset about it. I don't think she is 'posh' enough for the DILs.

TerfGran

I never said my son is weak I said he is a people pleaser, two very different things.

There’s also a difference between being a ‘people pleaser’ and doing your best, and being a doormat. 🤷‍♀️

I would not do as Quercus suggested, that's just blackmail. Would not even consider moving nearer either. I cannot understand why anyone would travel 3 hours each way to look after grandchildren and do housework. Why did you even you consider in the first place. Did the suggestion come from you I wonder. Think this latest suggestion bizarre, almost an effort to get you out.

For goodness sake back off. Your son has made his choice, its their problem to sort, she obviously has child cover or she would not be working so she can manage without your input, Send birthday cards and gifts and live your own lives and not through son and family,, Some grandparents need to feel central in their adult children's lives at any price.
Esmay, your son’s life sounds horrendous, no wonder he's so wound up. His wife sounds extremely unbalanced and that is putting it kindly, no one should have to feel obliged to live with someone like that, but its his decision. I could not live in that way. All you can do is leave them to it and maybe one day your son will decide if he really wants the life he has.

She sounds like a horribly spoilt and manipulative awful person.

I honestly think your son should grow a pair though and who cares if she cries, she’ll soon realise in the real world we all have to negotiate and meet people half way.

Most good relationships are built on compromise.

I’d invite them both over, with their children, for lunch or dinner or even overnight and explain very calmly and directly why driving 6 hours a day to provide childcare for her just isn’t feasible, it doesn’t mean you love your DGC any less.

If she refuses to come, ask you son to come alone with his children.

Failing this, just keep things very casual, call your son once a week and keep the chat light and just see how things go.

Esmay

I'm so sorry for you and I don't know how you get past these feelings.
You are not alone .
I don't hate my daughter in law because I believe that she's neurodivergent .
Apart from looking unkempt she has problems with personal hygiene .
She has no interest in people
unless they are useful to her and even then you don't get thanked .
This includes babysitting and cleaning the house ,which is unbelievably filthy.
The fact that you don't live nearby and have other commitments is lost on her .
Neither do you get thanked for gifts .
Phone calls and messages - even emergency ones are ignored .
She is extremely disrespectful towards her elderly widowed father .
My sadness is the fact that my son has become hostile and unpleasant since he met her.

Your DiL may be unkempt and have problems with personla hygiene and so on, but I see no reason why this should have anything to do with whether she is neurodivergent or not.

We are a neurodivergent family. DS and I were diagnosed with dyspraxia in the 1980s, we two plus DGS also have ADHD. None of us has gross personal habits, nor are houses filthy or any of the problems you mentioned.

Plenty of families are like this who have no form of neurodivergence at all.

It is bad enough that neurodivergence has become fashionable recently. I read this week that some families 'aspire' to having at least one neurodivergent child, autism is the most desired form withoutit being assumed we are slatterns as well.

icanhandthemback Also stopped paying into the kids bank accounts each month and buying their shoes. If we are not family or good grandparents then we stop with the good stuff!

Your relationship with your grandchildren shouldn't be transactional. They have done nothing wrong but it is them you are punishing in the short term.

I agree. We give because we want to, not to receive back.

Quite the same as helping clean or childcare merely because one wishes, not intruding in AC time with their children.

Unfortunately DiLs like that are perfectly capable of withholding/destroying gifts from GPs they've excluded. It happened to a best friend. Tge GC, now adult, have been turned against the GM, who has now disinherited them.
It's a tragic situation

Also stopped paying into the kids bank accounts each month and buying their shoes. If we are not family or good grandparents then we stop with the good stuff!

Your relationship with your grandchildren shouldn't be transactional. They have done nothing wrong but it is them you are punishing in the short term.

It is difficult to comment on your DIL without her side of the story but my sister and I were chatting about how much more easier it seems for younger people to go no contact. Obviously not in every case but it seems to be the go to answer these days. My sister's children have gone NC for quite a while but one of them is gradually starting to communicate. I am glad for my sister's sake but there are things I can see from the AC's side so it is difficult.
My DIL fell out with my mother and somehow I got caught up in the crossfire even though I stuck up for my DIL. She was obviously going through a difficult time as her mother had died. My son let it carry on for a while so she felt supported by him but when it just went on, he pointed out that her family had their moments when they were angry with him but he respected their position in her life and wanted the same respect for his family. Nowadays you wouldn't recognise that fracture and I am her go to person if she needs support when my son is unavailable. I was so grateful for my son's help in this matter and proud of his support for his wife too.

Boundaries are important in any relationship, people must be taught to respect you.

I'm so sorry for you and I don't know how you get past these feelings.
You are not alone .
I don't hate my daughter in law because I believe that she's neurodivergent .
Apart from looking unkempt she has problems with personal hygiene .
She has no interest in people
unless they are useful to her and even then you don't get thanked .
This includes babysitting and cleaning the house ,which is unbelievably filthy.
The fact that you don't live nearby and have other commitments is lost on her .
Neither do you get thanked for gifts .
Phone calls and messages - even emergency ones are ignored .
She is extremely disrespectful towards her elderly widowed father .
My sadness is the fact that my son has become hostile and unpleasant since he met her.

Norah

TerriBull

I don't know what's worse entitled grandparents who want a 2nd shot of parenting vicariously with the desire to appropriate gc all to themselves or parents who load up their own parents with onerous child minding duties. A round trip of 6 hours for a day's child minding is absolutely ridiculous

Agreed, There are 2 sides here.

Why would anyone drive 6 hours to child mind, do sons housework, give substantial money and DIY ? Answer: GPs pushed in.

Please quit, wait for your son to bring the children round.

Or it might just be that the ACs are over entitled tantrum throwers?

They asked the OP to do this, not the other way round. 6 hours?

I’d laugh and tell them to do one. 🙄

TerfGran

We didn’t commit to anything re housework and for the first 5 years they lived closer (1.5 hours away) but whenever we went round and heaven forbid asked if we could take GC’s out the response “we want all their memories to include mummy and daddy” so we’d traipse behind them with gritted teeth!
Once they moved we would go for the weekend but stay in a cottage nearby; very conscious that 4 children under 10 is chaos so would help out as much as we could.

Your DiL sounds like a very possessive parent, insisting that all your GCs memories should include herself and your son. Sounds like a very deep seated insecurity.
In any case this could come back to bite her when the children are older and find her attitude doesn’t chime with their need for sone independence. The simple fact is that children need the love and support of other family members, it prepares them for a world in which they can one day establish their own circle of friends or partners who who will love and support them.
Some ACs seem to be hell bent upon alienating their immediate family which is the daftest thing I have ever heard and totally counterproductive. So what if a DiL doesn’t like her in laws? They are family and the GCs should not have to forfeit a relationship with grandparents because of this silliness. There are ways to keep each other at arms length, no need for ACs to be so hostile about it.