I've been a rubbish mum/gran

What is happening in these relationships? I cannot understand breaking such a wonderful bond.

I find it difficult with the situation I am close to. One tells me far too much and vents her anger and the other tells me nothing saying that, I shouldn't have to pick a side which I would not anyway.

From Shakespeare's 'Hamlet'; it's powerful isn't it Allsorts but so is what you've said about dancing to a very warped tune I think Shakespeare would have been proud to have penned that .

You know Smileless I often think of one of my dear,mothers sayings, she had many and at times I took not a lot of notice they were usually either a Shakesoeare quote or out of Dickens, one she had, To thine own self be true, I could look it up but whoever said it had a great knowledge of people, it holds true, we should never let anyone bring us so low that we allow a person , our own child included to dance to a very warped tune. Another one that came from knowhere, if she thought someone uppity, one day cock of the walk, next a feather in someone's duster.,

It's taken a long time to get here yes it has Allsorts and there were times when we couldn't have even imagined doing so.

I can understand why in a way you wish your GD had never come back into your life. Yes, you have those memories that you never thought you'd have but have 'lost' her once again.

I've always said that I would never want our GS's to get in touch. They have never been a part of our lives and for me, it's better if it stays that way.

Annege, your d and dil did a mean and hurtful thing, it allienated you, yet you did nothing wrong. I know I would call it out because it would eat away at me, that's won't get you anywhere though, if you can do as others suggest and pull back. My husband the kindest man, saw the good in everyone, would have just said if that's how they want to behave leave then to it and he would have done just that.

I don't know but it looks like she's rejecting you due to her own standards of what you should look like which is completely unreasonable!
I am sorry!

I noticed a change in her when she started critising the way I looked etc and distancing when my grandson didn't need me to look after him anymore. I never called her out on things as always felt inside she would cut me off so I guess I was responsible, I didn't fit in. Other would have handled it better no doubt.

Allsorts in your situation it would seem so. I don't know the background and it looks like you've been treated cruelly. But what made your daughter behave in such a way. Was she always like that?
Remember when she was a baby/little girl you were in control.
Your GD at 20, is old enough to make her own judgement.

I would have done one of two things. Either blast them out or ignore what they said and keep conversation to 'Isn't it hot today! They sound as if they are in turmoil over the new baby with hormones flying everywhere. When my child was born over 40 years ago, my mother was my life saver, BUT, she did put very strict rules in place as to what she would do. She would show me what to do, advise, and step in if things got really bad, but, as I always took pride in what I did, I listened, learnt, and was grateful But then again, she had been through the war and just got on with the job.

Parents do hold all the cards MarieElla, you try to get access to your grandchildren when their parents, one your own child, won’t respond to a text, message, e mail, a letter. After many years my gd turned up, she had never forgotten me, she said she knew I loved her, but all the gifts for christmas and birthdays had not been received or her beautiful cards,I turned up at the house just once in all those years and was yelled at and thrown off the premises. GD saw me once a month but her mother kept texting and ringing. She was 20 However, despite her saying how much she loved me, visits stopped. Every time she came she hugged me and bought flowers, in a way I wish she had never come back. D once again had got what she wanted. Gd says she is controlling but loves her. I don't bother GD now as she has her life in front of her and I am old but I know how she told me she missed me but knew I loved her all those years, that gets me through and I did manage to tell her I had never given up
Smileless and Yoga, you went through all this with me from the beginning, we were all estranged at same time all those years ago. Its taken a long time to get here.

Don’t just rock up unannounced. Try to arrange a meeting on neutral ground.

Please don’t show up unannounced Op, you know they do not like it, so why be rude because you can? Should you do it anyway expect everything to get much worse.
If my parents - let alone my in-laws - had shown up unannounced to tell me off I’d have been livid.

Your daughter chose to become pregnant. We all managed years ago, even with a toddler.

Tine she stood on her own two feet. 🙄

I read the original post and commented but have only just returned to this thread.
Two words stand out to me: 'disrespect' and 'apologise'.
In no way have you disrespected (silly word anyway)your daughter, Annge; she has shown a great lack of respect to you and is treating you in a hurtful and immature manner. You have apologised, and your apology has been rejected with contempt. Do not offer it again.
I am wondering who is looking after their child now, for two ten -hour days as well as a stressful and tiring job with complications of health issues.
You are wise to write it all down, keep it for a few days then burn it, otherwise you will re-read it at a later date and the feelings and upset will return. I really would not go and thrash it out with your son; it is none of his business anyway, but it will only exacerbate the situation.
You do not deserve such ungrateful children and what has happened is most definitely not your fault, but at present I really would let things ride. I have a feeling they will require your help soon, for Saturday morning shopping, and I would be very careful how you respond.
How has this happened that adult children are able to treat their parents with such contempt? (witness the example of H & M).

That doesn't apply to my post because when it comes to access to GC, the parents hold all the cards MarieElla. You cannot see your GC without the consent of their parents.

Not all EAC are open to reconciliation regardless of what their EP's may say or do to try to make amends.

It is rare that children cut their parents off for no reason it doesn't necessarily follow though that the reason has anything to do the parents they've estranged being at fault; EAC can be and at times are at fault.

Not in all cases, tbh.
My sister estranged herself from my mother for good reason ( and only wanted mum to recognise how she has failed her (and me but I didn't want to cut contact as I live on another country and didn't have to see her too much)
Mum held the card there as she just needed to accept she got many things wrong and my sister would have been open yo a reunion.
It is rare that children cut their parents off for no reason.....very rare.

When it comes to access to GC, they do hold all the cards MarieElla.

Ask to meet somewhere neutral to thrash it out.
They don't hold all the cards.
They quite possibly will be missing you too and coukd be regretting that things have gone too far.

I would not just turn up. Could make you feel much worse. It looks as if they have joined forces and cancelled you, that's the latest, not estranged, they cancel.
They hold all the cards and we need them more than they do us. I no longer exist to my daughter because that's what she planned.

Oh dear, OP, I’m sorry you have found yourself in this situation with both of your children.
I think that you need to listen to what they are both saying to you, and then judge whether there is any truth at all in what they say. If so, give them a genuine apology and say that you will try to do better, as much as you are able. If not, then calmly and clearly explain why you haven’t been able to do as they have obviously hoped for.
Turning up to your son’s house to ‘thrash it out’ when you already know that your DIL does not like surprise visits sounds like a really bad idea, more suited to you than to them, and may be one clue as to why they are upset with you!

So glad that you will write it out, Annge, as that also helps me. No, definitely don't give the writing to your D. It is for you, to help you. Sending best wishes.

Annge

Thank you so much to everyone who responded to my OP.
I have taken everything on board and got some good suggestions. I am going to write everything down just to get it off my chest, but I won't actually give that to my DD as I don't think she will respond well. Other than that I will leave things alone as much as I can to let the dust settle and take my cue from her rather than force the issue - hopefully time will heal.
Don't think the same approach will work with my son though as he can be exceptionally stubborn so, even though DIL does not like surprise visits I am going to call on them after DGS bedtime to see if we can thrash it out and move forward. Wish me luck!!
Finally, I really can't thank you all enough for you kindness and support (well, almost all of you ). Mentally I am now in a much stronger frame of mind thanks to this wonderful community

Would it be best to arrange something at a neutral location? I would find someone showing up unannounced to have a word with me very disrespectful and they would not cross the threshold.

Writing everything down and getting it off your chest can be very cathartic Annge and I'm glad that you're in a stronger frame of mind.

FWIW I think that waiting to see if things settle down with your D is a good idea and I hope that she'll take the time to look at how she's behaved and see the error of her ways.

I hope that if you were able to thrash it out with your son that you've managed to clear the air and find a way forward. Sometimes 'taking the bull by the horns' is the right thing to do.

I hope you'll keep in touch and let us know how things are and wish you well .

Good luck Annge .

Wishing you all the best, Annge.