I need advice for a mutually messy situation

Just reading through this Thread, with no great words of wisdom to add, I get the impression that this 'conversation ' is actually helping you to focus on your 'issue'.
Good luck with whatever you decide to try.

valdali

Does her father want therapy for his unresolved childhood trauma? Does he even want to think that he has unresolved childhood trauma?
Because if not, it's unrealistic expecting him to go & put in the work once there.

Why on earth can't an adult child "be the bigger person"user 143981~? Don't know what you're on about.

I'm going to take OP at her word and believe he has unresolved childhood trauma (it's not unheard of parents directly telling their kids how they had it worse with their parents).

So it doesn't matter whether he wants it or wants to think he has trauma, that's the reality and you need to realize that to navigate it properly.

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Hi sundown, & it's great that you are willing to accept a part in your current situation - you have a head start just by recognising this.
I think you could be right that both of you have built up walls around yourselves as self-preservation, & it will take some courage to break those down & let yourself feel vulnerable. But I bet if you start the process, your dad will join you along the way with it. Is there any way you could organise a weekend away with just your dad, doing something he likes doing (eg fishing at a log cabin/walking in national park/mountains etc). And resolve to open up to him during it, being completely open & honest about your own mistakes & your own feelings, & see what you get back. Don't list your grievances against him, that will only make him defensive, concentrate on what you think you could do better. You never know - he might start to do the same! Even if it's nothing at the time, it's a start & it will give him food for thought, & maybe he will realise that he wants to reciprocate & mend the relationship with you too.

(Ps and my advice would be to jump on past any negative interaction/arguments from others in your thread, and just focus on the responses which are about you & the question you have asked)

The op has also done some pretty unreasonable things, and she is best able to call it like it is, which is faults on both sides.

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No, I'm afraid I've no interest whatsoever in interactions with you.
Its very clear to see your bias.

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Indeed MissA faults on both sides as there are with any relationship, and it's whether or not those in the relationship want to try and rise above those which determines the final outcome.

I hope you and your father will find a way to resolve the problems and re build the relationship sundown. It looks as if you want to meet him half way, and I hope for his sake as well as yours that he's able to do this .

Smileless2012

Indeed MissA faults on both sides as there are with any relationship, and it's whether or not those in the relationship want to try and rise above those which determines the final outcome.

I hope you and your father will find a way to resolve the problems and re build the relationship sundown. It looks as if you want to meet him half way, and I hope for his sake as well as yours that he's able to do this .

I don't see why he would have suddenly have a change of heart, he has been described as basically an immovable rock. It seems nothing can be said to change his behavior, for better or worse.

So for her to meet him halfway would always require sacrificing her mental health in some capacity. Especially since he's not the therapy type, or in other words, introspection is low on his list of priorities.

Is meeting someone halfway bad for your mental health? I’m inclined to think a level of tolerance ( with pretty much everyone you encounter) is what keeps you sane🙂

Rigidly expecting everyone to come the whole way to meet you must surely be much worse for mental health. Not least because you’ll always be angry or unhappy that they’ve disappointed you.

"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there."

Sometimes the least harmful thing to do is to look forwards, not backwards. Keep it light. Your dad's not going to change now sundown so do what works for you. A superficial relationship might suit you better than one full of anguish.

Lathyrus3

Is meeting someone halfway bad for your mental health? I’m inclined to think a level of tolerance ( with pretty much everyone you encounter) is what keeps you sane🙂

Rigidly expecting everyone to come the whole way to meet you must surely be much worse for mental health. Not least because you’ll always be angry or unhappy that they’ve disappointed you.

This advice would work under normal circumstances, but there is nothing normal with a father like sundown's.

A few here unfortunately have expectations of a child being magnitudes more mature than their parent. I don't see why that ever should be her burden to bear.

But if a superficial relationship that doesn't go deeper than talking about the weather is enough to make you happy, than I'm sure he won't talk about the things that make you uncomfortable. Maybe.

Someone who ignores and dismisses problems, pretends they aren’t happening. Who gets angry if someone disagrees with them, There’s millions of people like that. Very trying but hardly not normal.

I expect he would be happy just talking about the weather or the dog or the football, whatever. Again millions of people conduct relationships on those lines. That’s not abnormal either.

It’s just different from what the OP wishes he could be.

I think sundown's mum needs some consideration too. She might prefer a less fraught atmosphere at home.

Lathyrus3

Someone who ignores and dismisses problems, pretends they aren’t happening. Who gets angry if someone disagrees with them, There’s millions of people like that. Very trying but hardly not normal.

I expect he would be happy just talking about the weather or the dog or the football, whatever. Again millions of people conduct relationships on those lines. That’s not abnormal either.

It’s just different from what the OP wishes he could be.

Calling it "different" is an understatement.

There are millions, and probably hundreds of millions of parents with unresolved trauma that are unknowingly passing it down.

Just because generational trauma is very prevalent in our societies doesn't mean it should be normalized.

The best time to resolve your trauma is before you have children, the second best time to resolve it is yesterday.

It's a fact that every child automatically loves their parents from the start. Her bitter attitude towards him is a direct result of his traumatized behavior with her.

It pains me to see her feel like she is at fault for something she didn't start or want. Personally, I reached point while I was still growing up with my parents, where every single night I wished they would die in an accident instead of coming home safely.

I wasn't born a hateful bitter baby. Back then I wanted nothing more than my parent's love and approval, just like every other kid.

But their "parenting" was so heinous, they made me vehemently hate them, and I can imagine a reality where I was successfully guilted and shamed into thinking that I'm wrong to feel that way.

I was always constantly pressured by everyone around me to be more mature than my parents, to sacrifice my health just so they don't have to deal with resolving their trauma.

Those who guilt and pressure you to make sacrifices, extremely unreasonable sacrifices, don't actually care about you. They care more about keeping the peace, so they don't have to deal or worry about your genuine feelings and grievances.

As you can see sundown, there are people here with experiences from both sides of the fence, and some of them are so heartbreaking for that person, and deserve so much sympathy and understanding….but they are not you, and their experience is not yours. Only you know what your relationship with your dad is like now, and how you want it to be in the future. If you think there is a chance of improvement & that’s what you want, then take it. Being proactive rather than passive, taking control of a situation rather than being the one controlled will always be good for your mental health. Decide what you want to do, in your situation, and do it!

Of course babies don’t love their parents from the start. Babies only care about themselves and their own needs. 😬

I have seen families like yours. I am sorry for your painful experience. I would say your experience was indeed abnormal.

But the OPs father is nothing like your parents as you describe them. He has provided for her material needs unstintingly. He has enabled her to have heart surgery, supported her through mental health issues, has ensured she has enough to eat and has that she has a place to live.

He cares for her. Just not in the way she would like and that she is trying to make happen.

He is the person he is. Not demonstrative emotionally but practically yes. In every way possible for him.

So much of our unhappiness and yes, anger and bitterness is from wishing people to be the people we want them to be and to change, whilst at the same time claiming the right to continue be exactly who we are with no compromise or change on our part.

User143981 I am so sorry for your traumatic childhood experiences and I hope that, despite them, you are now well and have gone on to have a good life

Lathyrus3

Of course babies don’t love their parents from the start. Babies only care about themselves and their own needs. 😬

I have seen families like yours. I am sorry for your painful experience. I would say your experience was indeed abnormal.

But the OPs father is nothing like your parents as you describe them. He has provided for her material needs unstintingly. He has enabled her to have heart surgery, supported her through mental health issues, has ensured she has enough to eat and has that she has a place to live.

He cares for her. Just not in the way she would like and that she is trying to make happen.

He is the person he is. Not demonstrative emotionally but practically yes. In every way possible for him.

So much of our unhappiness and yes, anger and bitterness is from wishing people to be the people we want them to be and to change, whilst at the same time claiming the right to continue be exactly who we are with no compromise or change on our part.

Those are a lot of assumptions about my family.

They provided for me materially, paid for education, made sure I had enough to eat (sometimes) and a place to live, etc.

Her father's personality and behavior is a lot like my parents'. They could say and do whatever they wanted, and my feelings didn't matter at all. Exactly as described by the OP.

Sorry. I didn’t mean to make assumptions. I did assume physical neglect too.

V3ra

sundown this all sounds exhausting. I'd suggest that therapy would make it even more so.

As you get on well with your mum, could the three of you do some non-threatening things together? Go out for a coffee? Go to the cinema?
Spend some time together without talking particularly deeply. Get used to feeling a bit more relaxed in each others company.

Accept your differences. Just because he says something you don't like, doesn't make it true and doesn't mean you have to take any notice of it.
Best wishes xx

I agree with this suggestion, as you do, sundown

Getting out to neutral territory and finding distractions everyone can enjoy. New shared experiences and perhaps some physical activity would offer relief from the cycle of brooding and recrimination. A fresh start maybe?

Look at what he does for you rather than what he says. He's done plenty of direct practical things for you. Don't overthink the situation. This is what he's like. He's not going to change to suit how you think he should be.