I need advice for a mutually messy situation

Lathyrus3

Sorry. I didn’t mean to make assumptions. I did assume physical neglect too.

On paper, my family seemed completely fine and normal.

I realize my experience is extreme, but that doesn't mean OP's father isn't abnormal too, even if he's no where near as bad as my parents.

Even though sundown's situation is different from mine, it's similar in that we both don't have warm feelings towards our parent(s). I don't know where exactly her feelings of guilt stem from, but from my personal experience, I know it's all too easy to feel like something is wrong with you when everyone around you appears to have happy and functioning relationships with their parents.

It took a lot of time and healing to realize that there was nothing wrong with me, and that it's not my fault that I utterly lost at the parent lottery.

Back then it would have been very nice and helpful for someone to tell me that I deserved better, instead of always being told to just accept my parents for who they are and other minimizing and/or gaslighting statements (such as they still love me, or that they didn't actually mean what they said).

Your posts come across as very bitter User your terrible experiences are obviously still colouring your life and your posts here, but this is about Sundown who seems to have got a very good understanding of both herself and her father.

Good luck Sundown I think you will handle this all very well you have a good insight and hopefully you will be happier and at peace.

BlueBelle

Your posts come across as very bitter User your terrible experiences are obviously still colouring your life and your posts here, but this is about Sundown who seems to have got a very good understanding of both herself and her father.

Good luck Sundown I think you will handle this all very well you have a good insight and hopefully you will be happier and at peace.

There is nothing wrong with negative emotions. Feeling bitter over being born to parents with unresolved trauma is a perfectly valid and reasonable emotion to feel.

Even sundown has experienced bitterness over her parental relationship, and there is nothing wrong with that given the circumstance.

Yes BlueBelle, this thread is about sundown who as you say appears to have a very good understanding of both herself and her father.

Projecting your experience isn't going to help the OP User. Her relationship with her father isn't the relationship you had with your own parents.

She's aware of her father's failings and how she's contributed to the breakdown of the relationship, and any guilt she's feeling appears to be because of how she's behaved in the past and not because she's been made to feel guilty by her parents.

I wish you well sundown in your pursuit of a better relationship with your father .

Smileless2012

Yes BlueBelle, this thread is about sundown who as you say appears to have a very good understanding of both herself and her father.

Projecting your experience isn't going to help the OP User. Her relationship with her father isn't the relationship you had with your own parents.

She's aware of her father's failings and how she's contributed to the breakdown of the relationship, and any guilt she's feeling appears to be because of how she's behaved in the past and not because she's been made to feel guilty by her parents.

I wish you well sundown in your pursuit of a better relationship with your father .

It doesn't matter who made her guilty or why. I don't think she should feel guilty at all for having negative emotions toward her father when he was the one who chose to have children while having unresolved childhood trauma.

She says she's been absent and cold when things were inconvenient for her User, something which she's reproaching herself for which maybe in addition to having negative emotions toward her father, but is not only for that reason.

Gracey

It's a hard one to call.
Without knowing either of you, I'd say your father is one of those people (like one of my sisters) who doesn't do "feelings".
Sounds like he has a kind heart, but he is very buttoned up.
My sister is exactly the same, and if we expect more of her than she is willing (or able) to give, tensions arise and the atmosphere becomes strained.

It's easy to dismiss such people as cold fish, as they seem hard hearted, selfish, uncaring. In my sister's case I now believe she is on the autistic spectrum ( aren't we all, to some degree?) and finds expressing loving emotions difficult. Press her too hard and she gets testy. However, in her own way she has shown herself to be very thoughtful, caring and kind.

Perhaps, as you express feelings of guilt too, you have to accept the status quo. Leopards don't change their spots, and certainly in old age most people need a comfort zone and are uncomfortable with shifting relationships or change.

How about from now on, you throw only pleasant remarks, kind thoughts and nice deeds into your relationship with your father? Don't expect much back but you are being the better person by not expecting too much of him. Quite often in relationships one person puts more in than the other and sometimes that keeps things ticking over if you don't want constant animosity. I can quite understand that the easier path is to give up, walk away, keep your distance.

There's a decent, kind heart under his difficult exterior, by the sound of things.
I've found that if I want peace of mind and a difficult situation resolved, hanging on to that olive branch helps ME too.
It doesn't excuse bad behaviour but it helps me come to terms with family members who just don't react as I feel they should.
We don't always get what we want, do we?

As my lovely Mum used to say " It takes all sorts to make a world" It's true, and you can't always change people.

Excellent advice.

Smileless2012

She says she's been absent and cold when things were inconvenient for her User, something which she's reproaching herself for which maybe in addition to having negative emotions toward her father, but is not only for that reason.

And I'm trying to explain that being absent and cold, especially if its an inconvenience, is a reasonable and valid reaction when having an immature parent that is stunted from trauma.

It's easy to imagine if she had a more normal, well-adjusted father, that she than likely wouldn't feel the need to be absent and cold with him in the first place.

I don't understand why you appear to have a problem with the OP believing she has some responsibility for the situation with her father User.

She clearly doesn't see him as being solely responsible for the breakdown of the relationship which could be why she wants to try to repair it.

Some times adult children feel the need to be absent and cold toward their parents^, despite them being 'normal' (whatever that means) and well adjusted.

There are many people who won't, under any circumstances, admit any wrongdoing and I think all of us a some trait of this, be it big or small. It becomes a problem when we feel our wellbeing is at stake (being on the receiving end of it) and that's the time we have to put up boundaries. Is it possible to spend time with him when there are other people around so there isn't a chance of any 'heated argument or discussion. I know this is not addressing the issue but sometimes it is impossible to do this as it can make the situation worse. If it is not possible to be with him without this happening then perhaps professional counselling might help you. They will advise how to deal with things and accept the situation. I can empathise with you as i am in the same situation with my sibling.

I find it sad and even kind of insidious how some try to minimize and even normalize parents unabashedly having unresolved trauma, even when that trauma directly and negative affects their children.

Even if many families carry generational trauma, it's not something that should be considered normal or acceptable.

While it is difficult to change as a person, resolving your trauma, it's not impossible. Having children is also not necessary, so if you choose to have them, you owe them the effort of fixing your issues. Ideally.

No one's trying to minimise or normalise a parents unresolved trauma that negatively affects their children User. You appear to be seeing things on this thread that others including the OP, isn't seeing.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

No this isn't me normalising her father's behaviour User.

Not all AC who estrange their parents do so because there's something wrong with their parents and/or their childhoods. That's the reality and has nothing to do with the OP's relationship with her father.

sundown wants to try and rebuild her relationship with her father; why do you have a problem with that?

Try to lower your bar of what you think he should be like. He clearly loves you, and really, that is all that matters. Make up with him. Disregard his past behaviour. It is in the past. Try to plan some fun events, (and rise above it all.) The reason I say this is that you will have no regrets if you behave impecably towards him. He won't be here forever. You only have one father. Try to be kind, and to forgive, for both your sakes. Good luck.

Smileless2012

No this isn't me normalising her father's behaviour User.

Not all AC who estrange their parents do so because there's something wrong with their parents and/or their childhoods. That's the reality and has nothing to do with the OP's relationship with her father.

sundown wants to try and rebuild her relationship with her father; why do you have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with it. I posted earlier that she could probably convince him to have a surface level relationship with him, if that makes her happy.

There is no reason for you to act like what normal is than when you know I'm talking about sundown's unwell father.

Is it worth writing a long detailed letter to him?
Without coming across too negative?
Send it to him, and keep a copy yourself, so you know exactly what you have said?

StTrinians

Try to lower your bar of what you think he should be like. He clearly loves you, and really, that is all that matters. Make up with him. Disregard his past behaviour. It is in the past. Try to plan some fun events, (and rise above it all.) The reason I say this is that you will have no regrets if you behave impecably towards him. He won't be here forever. You only have one father. Try to be kind, and to forgive, for both your sakes. Good luck.

Not caring how she feels is a very strange kind of love. Spending some money, especially if you have an abundance of it, is not clearly love. In most cases, that money spent is the bare legal minimum so that you don't go to jail for child neglect.

In my case, I'm glad there's only one of them because I don't see myself surviving if there were two!

For goodness sake User!!! sundown came here for advice, not a character assassination of her father.

User( x number...) I see what you mean. However, I do advocate for forgiveness. It is worth cultivating it. It is not a matter of ignoring what happened in the past, or money, but it is about moving forward and rebuilding an important relationship, while there is still time. That is something no one cannot get back, or change when it's too late.

I think we all know by now that certain posters will always defend the parents and others will always defend the estranged child…could we maybe move on & get back to the original point of the thread now, before it goes the way of so many before it?!

StTrinians

User( x number...) I see what you mean. However, I do advocate for forgiveness. It is worth cultivating it. It is not a matter of ignoring what happened in the past, or money, but it is about moving forward and rebuilding an important relationship, while there is still time. That is something no one cannot get back, or change when it's too late.

But this isn't only just the past, but also the present and likely future, given that her father sees nothing wrong with his behavior.

If there's the possibility of rebuilding an important relationship, it's always worth pursuing StTrinians. Even if it isn't successful, there can be peace knowing that you did what you could.

I haven't seen anyone defending the OP (estranged child) or a parent (her father) stillawipp and for the record if your post @ 21.33 was directed at me, I don't always defend the parents. Not one of my posts on this thread has been in defence of the OP's father.

User143981. My advice would still be, forgive and forget. Time to move on. No one is perfect. Not even you, or I.. Being the best version of oneself is a better way to be.

I'm going to share and quote this article because I think it's very relevant to this thread.

The pollyanna enabler, the narcissist's most treasured minion

The Pollyanna enabler is a person who tends to excuse or rationalize the abusive behavior of others, often due to an extreme compulsion to maintain a relentlessly positive outlook on life. Even when confronted with evidence of mistreatment, they may try to find a good side to the story or downplay the severity of the behavior. The term “Pollyanna” refers to a character in a children’s book who always maintained an optimistic attitude in the face of adversity.

Pollyanna enablers utilize toxic positivity by promoting an excessively optimistic and unrealistic perspective in situations involving abuse or toxic relationships.

- Pollyanna enablers are individuals who encourage a victim of abuse or mistreatment to adopt an overly positive outlook, even when faced with harmful or toxic behavior.

- They employ toxic positivity by minimizing or denying the negativity or severity of abusive actions, and by emphasizing the importance of maintaining a positive attitude and the relationship at any cost.

- Pollyanna enablers may discourage open discussions about the abusive behavior, and downplay the suffering experienced by the victim.

This toxic positivity can lead to emotional suppression and the invalidation of the victim’s feelings, preventing them from addressing the abusive situation, seeking help, or setting necessary boundaries. In essence, Pollyanna enablers use toxic positivity to enable the continuation of abuse by emphasizing positivity at the expense of addressing and confronting negative experiences and emotions.

Common Phrases
- Don’t dwell on the negative.
- You should be more forgiving and understanding.
- You only have one parent, so try harder to get along with them; you will regret it if you don’t.
- Sure, they may have hurt you, but they also did so much good for you.
- They worry about you; doesn’t that count to you?

In the end, the Pollyanna enabler’s refusal to acknowledge the real issues perpetuates the cycle of abuse and denies justice to the real victims. It is important to recognize this behavior and hold enablers accountable for their actions, in order to break the cycle of abuse and create a safer, healthier environment for everyone involved.