Stop blaming Pensioners

Quite a lot of 'silly billies' on MN as Denis Healey might have said. Worth ignoring moans about pensioners and Winter Fuel, Brexit, etc.

It irritates me when so called gold plated pensions are mentioned. I paid £150 a month to my NHS pensio for 21 years. Now retired I receive £535 a month, hardly a princely sum, but I’m so glad I paid into it as it subsidises my state pension which I also paid into via NI contributions from the age of 16. I am now 68. I do sympathise with the youngsters today, particularly with the price of housing, speaking of which our small terrace house had virtually to be re built!

I should point out that I posted that “I” would not be happy having much older people teaching and practicing medicine.
That is still my personal opinion .

I think alater pension age will have to come with a flexible pension start date.

It will need to be possible to grant people medical/fitness early retirements.

It's difficult enough to persuade younger retirees to volunteer for charity work without expecting people to work into their 70s.

Many of the fundraisers DH volunteers with are in their 80s, one gave up at 92 and very few people in their 60s are coming forward now.

Retired people are the mainstay of the charity voluntary sector.

Well as people have said, that suits some, but it isn't for everyone. There is an option for anyone to defer their pension, but I wouldn't want to see it become the expectation that people do so. There are far too many variables, and in many cases it would be cruel to expect people to choose between working into older age and missing out on a full pension. It would lead to even more of a gap between those in physical jobs and those who are not.

iam64 Who said anything about people necessarily working full time at 70?. It may be possible to retire flexibly working part time and drawing some pension but not all.

At 70 DH was still travelling around Europe and spending time standing on cold quaysides for hours and then bucketing around offshore in supply boats. At 80 and a heart bypass later, he is still doing office work checking engineering calculations and advising on solutions to tricky problems offshore.

Callistemon21

Cutting back when someone lives hand-to-mouth is not possible.

Yes, and if people haven't been able to afford to pay into a pension they won't be able to save either.

Cutting back when someone lives hand-to-mouth is not possible.

Callistemon21

^Save, save, save for ones own retirement^!

And if someone is living hand-to-mouth, how can they be expected to do that?

I have no solution other than to cut back and save, teach our children cut back. I think, for all the reasons, not just inter-generational squabbling, the pension system, as it is, yields worry.

Likely I'm an alarmist worrier...

Perhaps everyone has their children, if not themselves, prepared for what appears could happen. Save, save, save for ones own retirement!

Yes, which is why some younger people resent the older generation. They are having to pay into a scheme that they don't see as benefiting them, and it probably won't.

In their eyes, 'boomers' (they don't know enough to differentiate between the very different deals the early and later ones have had) didn't work, got pensions at 60 and have made a lot of money on houses just for living in them, when they can't afford housing and will probably have to work until they are 70. There are no council houses now, as 'boomers' bought them at huge discounts and some young people are paying high rent to those who bought them cheaply.

They are right in some ways, but of course it's not as simple as that. As I said, they will benefit from the social mobility their parents had, and of course not all 'boomers' did well. Later ones had few of the opportunities that the earlier ones did (MIRAS, grammar schools, cheap house prices etc), and house prices in some parts of the country obviously rose massively more than in others.

Plus, whatever our age or generation, we all live different lives. They are being far too simplistic and generalising wildly.

I’m not convinced annsixty can be dismissed so readily. There aren’t many demanding jobs that can be safely and competently carried out on a full time basis by people in their seventies. Even those who are in reasonable health don’t have the energy or staying power they had at 60

Save, save, save for ones own retirement!

And if someone is living hand-to-mouth, how can they be expected to do that?

I think annsixty makes good points.

It really isn't fair that someone in a physically demanding job should be expected to work when it is taking a toll on them.

Some GPs and nurse practitioners really have not kept up-to-date with the latest medical findings and patients may suffer (or even die) as a result.

Longer to collect means older to collect, obviously

Doodledog Of course you are right that not everyone is falling apart at 70-90, but not falling apart is not reason enough to be denied the pension you've paid for all your life*, and anyway, nobody is implying that that is the case. What people are saying is that some people, particularly those who have worked in manual jobs, or those who have conditions such as arthritis are physically unsuited to working well into old age. In less physically demanding jobs there are stresses, and keeping up with changes in technology can be difficult for some.

*And yes, I know there is no 'pot', but the fact remains that people have paid NI on the understanding that they would get a pension at 60, and it's already been raised to 66/7. I don't think it is at all unreasonable for people to expect the government to honour its promises. We are all different, so there is nothing stopping those who want to carry on working to do so. That shouldn't mean that we all have to though.

Fair enough. The rules changed- the age became longer to collect. I know that may annoy some people. I understand,

Inarticulately, I've been attempting to point at a solution to: people living longer - more people taking out - less people 'putting in' (I do know there is no pot..

I give up.

Perhaps everyone has their children, if not themselves, prepared for what appears could happen. Save, save, save for ones own retirement!

annesixty, that is a very sweeping statement and, dare I suggest based on a stereotypical idea of what someone of 70 is like.

if they are still te\ching/doctoring at that age, they will be fit and healthy and will have kept up with all modern developments in their field, They may well be far better at their job than some of their younger colleagues (said with a lot of feeling)

I don’t think there is Callistemon but I’m not sure of that. Maybe someone else knows definitely.
I agree with Doodledog and Monica that many people would not be capable of continuing to work up to their 70s and what’s more, I think it unreasonable and unkind to expect them to do so. People pay NI for their state pension, which is not enough to live on anyway, and when they have paid for many years, they are entitled to not be forced to work until they drop.

I don’t want my GGC taught by over 70’s neither do I want to be treated by Drs or nursed by people over that age when I am ill.
To think of labourers working on farms , building sites and emptying my bins fills me with horror for them.
Will they be working while the younger generation live on benefits because they can’t get a job is ludicrous in the extreme.

Perhaps there is no State Pension in the USA?

Exactly. And look how many older people say they are 'no good with technology'. Obviously the sample on here is, by definition, different, but there are many people who haven't kept up with things, to the point where they wouldn't get even basic work in an office. Those who have kept up may still find that the constant updating of systems is too much for them.

It's ridiculous to think that people are the same at 70 as they were at 35. That's not writing them off - many older people can and do work on - but one size doesn't fit all.

Some one can be fit and healthy and still not be capable of doing the job they have done all their life.

If you have spent your working life doing hard manual work. The chances are that by the time you are 60 you no longer have the stamina and strength to continue to do this 8 hours a day 5 days a week. You may still be strong and healthy.

This may well apply to nurses and other people ont heir feet and running round all day.

I know that at 80, although still able to do all the garden jobs in my large garden, I cannot keep going for four or five hours without a break, have a meal and do the same again the way I used to.. After 2 hours I need to go in and sit down for an hour and not do anything too physically demanding after that.

Norah

M0nica

Norah Your family were fortunate not to be among the labouring classes.

One of my mothers few memories of her father, he died during WW1, was of him ocming hom from work and sitting by the fire with his head in his hands almost asleep with sheer exhaustion. He was a London docker - and this is the effect the work had on him when still in his 30s. Had he lived and remained a docker, do you think he could have worked like that into his 70s and 80s? Assuming he lived that long and did not die of health problems before then.

As I said, we're all different.

Different genetics, education, jobs/careers -- all different. Some healthy people die young in accidental ways, some people live to old age. But to imply all people are old and falling apart at 70-90 is just incorrect, imo.

True, but if the pension aged went up to 70-75 people would die.

Of course you are right that not everyone is falling apart at 70-90, but not falling apart is not reason enough to be denied the pension you've paid for all your life*, and anyway, nobody is implying that that is the case. What people are saying is that some people, particularly those who have worked in manual jobs, or those who have conditions such as arthritis are physically unsuited to working well into old age. In less physically demanding jobs there are stresses, and keeping up with changes in technology can be difficult for some.

*And yes, I know there is no 'pot', but the fact remains that people have paid NI on the understanding that they would get a pension at 60, and it's already been raised to 66/7. I don't think it is at all unreasonable for people to expect the government to honour its promises. We are all different, so there is nothing stopping those who want to carry on working to do so. That shouldn't mean that we all have to though.

I also recall a poster (don't recall who) who quit work in her 50s healthy, awaiting retirement age for pension money, having saved for the 'unemployed and over 50, hard to be hired' eventuality.

There is no one size fits all.

M0nica

Norah Your family were fortunate not to be among the labouring classes.

One of my mothers few memories of her father, he died during WW1, was of him ocming hom from work and sitting by the fire with his head in his hands almost asleep with sheer exhaustion. He was a London docker - and this is the effect the work had on him when still in his 30s. Had he lived and remained a docker, do you think he could have worked like that into his 70s and 80s? Assuming he lived that long and did not die of health problems before then.

As I said, we're all different.

Different genetics, education, jobs/careers -- all different. Some healthy people die young in accidental ways, some people live to old age. But to imply all people are old and falling apart at 70-90 is just incorrect, imo.