So Roger Daltrey reckons old people have caused the NHS crisis?

Does anyone remember the TV series in 60s Logan’s Run when people were “culled” humanly at 21? They had an inbuilt crystal when born which changed colour every few years until black I think on the last day.
That’s an idea eh? What age should we programmed ‘til?

If the elderly are culled, think of the enormous redundancies that would result. Most of those in the medical system look after and are treating older people. The propertion of older people in hospital is so high because so few younger people have ills that require hospital treatment.

Most drugs are taken by the elderly, so pharmaceutical company sales would plummit, reducing the money available for researching treatments for other illnesses. Then there are all the other hospital supply companies. Medical schools would have to drastically cut their intake.

It is etsimated that people over 65 contribute £100 billion to the economy each year, say over 80s contribute a third of that - £33 billion. Disposing of us could cause an economic breakdown and a slump far worse that 2012 or post COVID.

DrWatson
A&E depts round the country are clogged up with people who shouldn’t be there, cut fingers, sprained ankles, idle mums taking their kids in with a sniffle etc etc.
It’s easy to be judgmental without considering the wider picture.

Prof Kamila Hawthorn, Chair RCGPs said Unfortunately the entire NHS is heaving under unsustainable pressure and patients are increasingly looking for any port in a storm. While some of the pressure may not be indicative of a medical “emergency” conditions such as fevers…..can be symptomatic of something serious that needs the skill and experience of a medical professional to diagnose and treat.

Incidentally don’t dads take kids to A&E too?

Roger is partly right I suppose, but the reason so many older folk require treatment is due to the NHS being very good, it's prolonged life so well that far more folk need ever-more complex help.

Other major issues include that A&E Depts round the country are clogged up with people who shouldn't be there, cut fingers, sprained ankles, idle mums taking their kids in with a sniffle, etc etc. I'd have people paying to get seen, then claim the fee back if it's a real Accident or Emergency (the French method I think). Should free up some space quite quickly?!

Plus - GP numbers have been in decline for quite some years, and given the training lead time, you could point to Labour failing in that regards too.

Roger could of course stand for election, putting forward the policy that we have too many people, so anyone 80 or more would be entered into a yearly lottery to be culled, make way for some new blood? In view of his age, I suspect he'd have a rethink?

I have twice recently due to a health condition been taken by ambulance to A&E and having between seeing a doctor and having x-rays and tests sat in a waiting room for up to 12 hours after arriving around 3am both times there were two or three elderly people waiting but the majority were young people in late teens up to their 30's all of whom arrived on foot not ambulance some bought their mates or whole families and one or two were extremely rude demanding they were seen as they were an urgent cases while us older ones even me in extreme pain just sat there quietly waiting our turn so the rich entitled should go to a NHS hospital next time and see what life there is really like where there is a shortage of beds in A&E so you get seen returned to the waiting area between being seen

FranP

We are de-prioritised as we get older. Treatment is delayed until it becomes too late, or not given at all. Left in hospital - inactivity causing more issues.

Look forward to palliative care only - which is anything but.

This is completely untrue.
I was thinking about my mother. For the last 15 years of her life she took what was such an expensive drug that her GP wouldn't prescribe it, it had to be done by the hospital. It was a cancer drug which she took, not because she had cancer, but because it lowered her platelet count which was incredibly high.
When at 92 she was admitted to hospital after a fall she spent 3 months becoming less and less able, suffering UTIs, a stomach bleed and periods of confusion. Her arms were black and blue because the veins kept collapsing when she was on a drip. She signed a DNR and eventually died of pneumonia.
But I was thinking what if death had really been discussed with her? What if she had been taken off her blood pressure pills and the other drugs and sent home? She could have died in her own home with her friends and family around her. It would have needed someone like a district nurse to check on her, but it might have been a better death.
That's what Daltry was talking about.

‘Course there’s these young whippersnippers having babies and taking up hospital beds. Not to mention those damn kids with their earaches and bellyaches. And ,stuff the terminally ill, they’re gonna die so why bother? Actually, let’s go back to the old days and make ‘em pay if they want treatment, that’ll sort ‘em.

Look forward to palliative care only - which is anything but.
Certainly not in hospital.

We are de-prioritised as we get older. Treatment is delayed until it becomes too late, or not given at all. Left in hospital - inactivity causing more issues.

Look forward to palliative care only - which is anything but.

SunnySusie The reason so many old people occupy hospital beds is because improvement in social conditions, simple drugs and innoculations mean that most people can get through most of their lives without ever needing to go into a hospital. Gone are the TB wards, the children with illnesses the result of malnutrition, the miners with pneumoconiosis, the many, many people with severe chronic respiratory complaints.

Apart from when I had my children I did not spend a day as a hospital in patient between the ages of 13 and well over 60 and this applies to family and friends.

There are so many old people in hospital because there are so few young people needing hospital treatment.

All those(now) old people, like me, paid our dues to the NHS, without complaint, over many decades when we rarely saw our GP, let alone needed hospital inpatient treatment.

We have now reached an age wher we do need medical treatment - and have paid for it! I see no reason why we should be told we cannot have it.

SunnySusie

In my view the enormous challenges faced by the NHS are caused by a variety of factors, one of which is undoubtedly the aging population. Having recently worked in a large hospital on a ward which was not designated for older people, nevertheless they occupied more than half the beds and because quite a few of them had dementia, they soaked up a huge amount of staff resources. I certainly dont think older people should be excluded from treatment, everyone has a right to treatment, but it is simply a fact of life that when the NHS was planned and implemented the population didnt live as long, and didnt live with complicated multiple diseases. The system wasnt designed to deal with the situation we have now.

The system certainly wasn’t designed to deal with the situation we have now, however, “the situation” includes many many other factors than old people, far less premature babies survived, no transplants were done, IVF treatment wasn’t “invented” sex changes didn’t exist, so many more treatments available for so many more conditions especially cancer, so so many more factors than just the elderly.

In my view the enormous challenges faced by the NHS are caused by a variety of factors, one of which is undoubtedly the aging population. Having recently worked in a large hospital on a ward which was not designated for older people, nevertheless they occupied more than half the beds and because quite a few of them had dementia, they soaked up a huge amount of staff resources. I certainly dont think older people should be excluded from treatment, everyone has a right to treatment, but it is simply a fact of life that when the NHS was planned and implemented the population didnt live as long, and didnt live with complicated multiple diseases. The system wasnt designed to deal with the situation we have now.

Best wishes, Amalegra and I hope you get the very best treatment available. 💐

Wishing you, Amalegra, the best treatment available and a speedy resolution.

I’m sorry to hear about your diagnosis Amalegra. Your life is worth every bit as much as anyone else’s and I hope you receive the very best of care and a good outcome. Very best wishes. 💐

I have recently been diagnosed with breast cancer and am waiting for my cancer pathway ie treatment to be sorted. I am 67. Am I old? Is my life worth less than another, younger person’s? I’d like to think it is worth the same-not more, but certainly not less! Perhaps Mr Daltrey, in all his wisdom should look at WHY the NHS is not coping! It certainly has to do with the fact that the present system was inaugurated in 1948 and, if you look at its history, was certainly not the one originally envisaged. Now it cannot cope with the increasing sophistication and expectations of modern medicine. That, plus the enormous increase in population and the never ending proliferation of the welfare state makes it near impossible to maintain in its present form. I’d like to hear his thoughts on that one! Meanwhile, I will be making sure I get the best and quickest treatment available to me with absolutely no apologies.

Of course all treatments and life saving treatment should be available to ALL & all adequately funded. Govts always manage to find cash when they want to

👍 Yes, amazing, isn't it, what they can find down the side of the sofa when they want to!

Urmstongran

I think if someone ‘only has weeks’ that time is very precious. To them and their family.

Absolutely! Both my dear Dad and my best friends husband were diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer in 2015, both only had 6 months left to live and both died in 2016, my Dad at 80, best friends husband at 64, how grateful we all were for those last few weeks!

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Glorianny

I think all this thread shows is that if you misinterpret something in the OP you will probably get the responses you are looking for.
Esther Rantzen was mentioned. She's joined Dignitas. She's rich. But that's probably OK.
Either that or people really don't want to discuss what they would do if they had a terminal diagnosis.

Oh, I think some of us know exactly what we're talking about.

Even a terminal diagnosis can sometimes be wrong if a new drug is trialled.

I think one thing I would dread more than any other would be getting Alzheimer's or some form of dementia.

But that is exactly the mistake Callistemon21 Daltry hasn't said you shouldn't be treated, he hasn't said if you want to go through a drug trial and be experimented on you shouldn't. He's said you should think about it and at some point you might decide not to, that extending life indefinitely isn't always the best way.

But also into that consideration you might take the fact that a young person might need treatment
.
I think it's an interesting question. If there is one place on a drugs trial would you take it or give it to a younger person? He'd. give it up

I know a previously healthy younger person who went on drugs trials and became very ill with a permanent debilitating condition as a result.

If I thought there was a risk of a drug having adverse reactions (which is very possible) would I go on the trial? Yes, because my reactions might well result in changes to the formula which could then benefit younger people.

Drugs could have different effects on different age groups of course.

** more doctors AND nurses! Not more doctors as nurses!

Callistemon21

100% Of course all treatments and life saving treatment should be available to ALL & all adequately funded. Govts always manage to find cash when they want to.

Our NHS is a godsend, BUT does need restructuring and we do need more doctors as nurses and new hospitals. We are an aging population but we’ve also grown as a population and all public services simply haven’t grown with them.

No one life is more important than another and many much older people have DNRs in place, I know my dear late mother did, she also has a living expressing her wishes to have only palatine treatment should she be diagnosed with a terminal condition.

Callistemon21

Glorianny

I think all this thread shows is that if you misinterpret something in the OP you will probably get the responses you are looking for.
Esther Rantzen was mentioned. She's joined Dignitas. She's rich. But that's probably OK.
Either that or people really don't want to discuss what they would do if they had a terminal diagnosis.

Oh, I think some of us know exactly what we're talking about.

Even a terminal diagnosis can sometimes be wrong if a new drug is trialled.

I think one thing I would dread more than any other would be getting Alzheimer's or some form of dementia.

But that is exactly the mistake Callistemon21 Daltry hasn't said you shouldn't be treated, he hasn't said if you want to go through a drug trial and be experimented on you shouldn't. He's said you should think about it and at some point you might decide not to, that extending life indefinitely isn't always the best way.

But also into that consideration you might take the fact that a young person might need treatment
.
I think it's an interesting question. If there is one place on a drugs trial would you take it or give it to a younger person? He'd. give it up

Glorianny

I think all this thread shows is that if you misinterpret something in the OP you will probably get the responses you are looking for.
Esther Rantzen was mentioned. She's joined Dignitas. She's rich. But that's probably OK.
Either that or people really don't want to discuss what they would do if they had a terminal diagnosis.

Oh, I think some of us know exactly what we're talking about.

Even a terminal diagnosis can sometimes be wrong if a new drug is trialled.

I think one thing I would dread more than any other would be getting Alzheimer's or some form of dementia.

I think all this thread shows is that if you misinterpret something in the OP you will probably get the responses you are looking for.
Esther Rantzen was mentioned. She's joined Dignitas. She's rich. But that's probably OK.
Either that or people really don't want to discuss what they would do if they had a terminal diagnosis.

Well varied comments!
Surprising when many posters supported the possible assisted dying bill.