Veganism........

I am not a Vegan , too fond of my meat and fish .
However, that is the choice for some and is okay too !

Completely unexpectedly son and DIL have decided to go vegan for health reasons. At first they said they would not impose this diet on 2 year old daughter but 3 weeks in to the diet they have decided to feed her a vegan diet too. DGD stays with us a lot and we are struggling with this decision. Any advice gransneters?

Your DS and DiL need to speak to their health visitor about this. I believe that there have been cases of young children put on vegan diets failing to thrive. They will need to take specialist advice. The link to the Vegan Society is: www.vegansociety.com/ and the page on child nutrition is:
www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-health/eating-well-early-life

There is a lot of advice on feeding children and the main site contains recipes and meal suggestions.

squaredog: Suffice to say, my reasons are simply kindness and empathy. Could anyone here keep their cat/dog under those conditions? Could anyone here be happy to visit a slaughter house to really see what goes on? (And then eat the produce)

Perhaps you could advise on how to stop a relative's cat which is a veritable slaughter house in itself of small birds, mice, shrews?

Good luck if you become a vegan, I don't think I could do it because I would be constantly worrying about getting the right nutrition. Feeding DGC would also be a problem and worry for me, although I suppose they would be getting sufficient protein and other essential nutrition from meals their parents give them.

jojojo, X post.
Just to say there was an article in the press some time ago about children in Totnes as far as remember. Some children were suffering from malnutrition because their parents were feeding them a vegan diet.

DD's friend's children have always had a vegetarian diet; their mother is very careful to feed them a balanced diet and they are very healthy and energetic children. However, I would be worried about feeding a growing child a vegan diet.

PS why are we designed with canine teeth if we are meant to be vegetarian or vegan and not omnivores?

Thanks for your comments and the links. DH and are not turning vegan and not vegetarian either though we respect the wishes of other adults if that is what they want to do. Our concern is for DGD and I am not sure I can promise to always provide vegan food for her. We will just have to see how it goes I guess.

There have been reports of children and babies becoming ill after having a "vegan" diet. Usually it turns out that the "vegan" diet in question was severely deficient e.g. using only almond milk or restricted to nothing but carrots and tomatoes.

The links given by FlicketyB will give sensible advice on vegan eating.

jojojo, if you feel that you cannot promise to always provide vegan food for your DGD, then you should discuss this with her parents.

www.viva.org.uk for vegan recipes as well.
They have books for vegan kids, a Healthy Veggie Kids guide, as well as lots of information online.
Vegan food is easy enough to get now from supermarkets. I have a 14 year old vegan granddaughter as well as two vegetarian granddaughters, aged 6 and 21, and they are all fit and healthy. I think you should look on it as a way to extend your cullinary repertoire, rather than thinking of it as a problem.

It's a problem in that a vegan diet is being imposed on a 2 year old child, who can't possibly decide for herself. Fine if and when a child is old enough to choose...

Whatever diet a child has is imposed on the child. Children in other parts of the world are brought up healthily on a non-western diet.

What do you mean by non-western? I don't think many children in other parts of the world are given a vegetable-only diet.

There is a difference between vegetarian and vegan, too, and on a totally vegan diet a small child needs a careful choice of food while they are developing fast. It is not a coincidence that humans, like other mammals, feed their offspring milk, in some cultures for much longer than we might consider usual. If milk is not possible or desired, then a suitable alternative is necessary.

But human milk is meant for human babies for that reason. Cows milk was never meant for humans of any age. It is quite strange that human adults continue to consume a product which is produced to rear young, and not even young of their own species. I do drink milk btw.

Canine teeth are there because almost all mammals have them including herbivores. They have nothing to do with eating meat.

freefromharm.org/photo-galleries/9-reasons-your-canine-teeth-dont-make-you-a-meat-eater/

This is quite an old thread but if you are still around squaredog I am in exactly your position, and have been leaning towards a more vegan diet for a while now. I gave up using leather a long time ago and can't bear the smell of it now. Each to their own.

In a less modern age, human babies would still be getting human milk at 2.

And beyond!

I agree Elegran and many human babies still get milk at 2. All my children did and so did DGS. I suspect that many vegetarian or vegan parents might be more likely to choose extended breastfeeding as well for a number of reasons. I'm sure it is far better for children than cows' milk if it's possible for mothers to do it. I don't think either are essential at that age though.

I mean human milk of course.

Lots of Indian, Japanese and Chinese children are brought up as vegans, Ana. Vegans do not just eat vegetables. They eat fruit, grains, pulses and tofu.
In the western diet, we tend to eat mainly wheat and rice, whereas others will eat a bigger variety of grains, such as buckwheat, quinoa and corn. The eastern diet also contains more pulses, lentils and soya, in the form of tofu, and nuts and seeds.
It's only since Eastern countries have started to eat more meat that they have had more degenerative diseases.
Elegran, the human is the only mammal that feeds its offspring on other mammals milk. It's not necessary.

jojojo was raising her concerns about her GD who is already 2 and her parents have suddenly decided to become vegan, and to include their daughter.

We have no more information than that - I'm presuming that as jojojo has her GD to stay a lot, the child is no longer breast-fed.

My point was that it takes planning to give small children all the elements in their diet that they need to grow. Just eating what you were eating before changing over to a vegan diet, but leaving out the non-vegan items, does not work. You have to start again from first principles. Those countries where it is the norm have different dietary traditions to those where meat and dairy products are the norm.

(My post was in reply to nightowl's btw)

Exactly my thinking, Elegran.

I would hope that someone who has just decided to become vegan has researched the diet properly for themselves, let alone for a child. I would discuss this with your son and DIL jojojo and ask for advice about what to give your grandchild when she stays with you. I think we all do that with grandchildren anyway, I know I do as I like to have an idea of what my grandson likes and doesn't like and what his parents want him to eat.

jojojo, are your son and daughter in law already vegetarian, or are they missing out that step?
Soya yogurt has a pretty similar nutritional profile to cows milk yogurt.
Doctor David Ryde, a fellow of the Royal College of GPs, says that he believes the vegan diet to be the healthiest way to eat and provides amply for all bodies be they adult, teenage, child or baby.

One of my adult daughters has been eating a vegan diet for about a month now. She has become increasingly concerned about animal welfare issues, including the over use of antibiotics etc in animals. She plans to supplement with B vitamin as so far, that's the vitamin she's identified as missing from a vegan diet. We are all enjoying the delicious recipes she is cooking up. Lots of pulses, beans etc as well as heaps of vegetables. She made burgers with a salad, and roasted sweet potato last night, fabulous.

Any diet that excludes meat/fish/dairy takes some planning, and often results in a great variety of meals.