UK would run out of food today

Cross posts merlot (or great minds etc)

Yes, chemicals cost money, Gk but cheaper than labour.

Organic food production is more labour intensive because without the use of chemicals, weed and pest control has to be done by hand - hence the high labour costs.

Most vegetable crops are also harvested by hand with the exception of carrots and potatoes.

Reading some of the posts makes me applaud Gnetters who are producing much of their own food, buying organic where possible and not eating farmed fish etc. That is great and anyone who can produce any of their own food should be encouraged, however little.

However, for most of the public in this country this is simply not possible. Try telling a mum in a high-rise flat that she should be producing some food in her windowbox or on an allotment and she may well tell you to take a running jump (possibly through the window).

BUT should we be encouraging Britain's farmers to produce more and to start filling that 40% gap? And encouraging more young people to choose agriculture as a career? I do realise that some foods we have become used to will always be imported - coffee, tea, olive oil to name two or three - but quite honestly does anyone need to eat salad at Christmas? And how much of it is thrown away?

Surely producing more of our own food would be better for the UK economy as well?

Nowadays farmers sow, irrigate and fertilise their crops according to what soil testing shows each individual bit of the field requires. Cows are given supplements according to their milk yield / state of gestation. The same goes for free range pigs and sheep. It's very efficient.

Big business though is only in it for the dosh. The latest money making thing is solar 'farms' and they always claim the land beneath won't be wasted but will be used to graze sheep or free range chickens. I have only once seen chickens under the panels ( and very happy they looked too). Business investors have no interest in the land itself, no interest in it's future.

The biggest problem as far as I can see is population density. Of course Australia, the USA and France can be self sufficient. They have more land to farm.

Well it looks like Russia is putting an embargo on some of our food exports so there should be more home grown available now.
In reply to OP we are making ourselves vulnerable if we don't try to increase food production. But the supermarkets have to take much of the blame for driving farmers out of business by, for example, their policy on cheap milk, cheap chicken, etc...and if we buy these products then we must also share the blame.

But the 40% gap could easily be filled by cutting the 50% waste- much better all round, ecologically too. Waste is just non-sensical.

Thank you for your posts, nfk and aka

I did see a large wind farm overseas; apparently the local farmers were very angry when it went up as they thought it would stop the cows producing milk. However, they were (allegedly) astonished to find that milk production went up. Perhaps they were soothed by the hummm hummm hummm?

Rosequartz, when I was working in inner city schools we did exactly that. One of our schools took over an allotment in the middle of high-rise flats and the children, their parents and their grandparents planted it and grew huge amounts of fruit and vegetables. Nobody told us to take a running jump. I don't know how many families kept it up, but a few families learnt what it meant to grow their own food. It is possible.

Sell by dates are ridiculous om many products too- and tons of fruit and veg are wasted before they even get to the shops. Cucumbers because they are a bit too small, or too large, or have a little lump, or a kink- etc non-sensical.

Would love to see some supermarkets following on the Intermarché 'ugly' fruit and veg range- perfectly good and wholesome, just less than perfect in shape. Who cares!

That sounds like a really good thing to do, Mamie, let's hope there are lots more initiatives like that.

Yes, I think it was Intermarche (accent aigu) that I read about recently in the British press.

Before the organic label was taken up to be used for "food which has not had artificially produced chemicals used its production" the terms organic and inorganic were already in use in the field of chemistry. "Organic chemists refer to any molecule containing carbon as an organic compound and by default this means that inorganic chemistry deals with molecules lacking carbon"

Don't beat up *Grumppa" for his humorous comment on the word "organic". He wasn't saying that the "thing" was silly, just the literal meaning of the label

Meat and vegetables themselves are made up of organic compounds, whatever they have been fed on. Calling the food organic is a transferred epithet. It is the production of some foods that is without inorganic compounds.

OK, It is now so accepted as a definition that to notice the distinction is pedantic.

We should be celebrating the fact that we have got past the stage where people in Britain starved because there wasn't enough food. We have done this through global food trade. It's called civilisation and development. May it come quickly to places that still need it, I say.

Re wasted or thrown out food, some of you may be interested in this awareness raising project in Wisconsin

In a very uncertain world, I think it is a good idea to try to produce as much as we can in our own country.

Of course, this has its downside; there are people who have become very upset at the countryside being 'blighted' by polytunnels which produce the strawberries and other fruits which we demand for a longer and longer season.

Maybe we could begin to understand why it makes sense to eat fruit and veg in season. Just do not understand why people want strawberries in November- makes no sense in so so many ways. We've just lost touch with the food we eat and the implications of our actions. Strawberries are fabulous, ripe and grown not too far away- stuff yourself silly when there is a glut- then forget about them until next June- or turn them into jams and so-on.

Mamie that's commendable. The council was so taken with my husband's guerrilla allotment, they tried to get people interested in planting up other disused areas on the estate with vegetables (via the resident's association), but so far, no luck. There are of course other people on our estate who do have vegetable gardens, but they garden on their own properties.

Most people are very impressed with the "allotment" and husband gets many positive comments from passersby. Only one person had a go at him saying he hoped we were paying for the use of council land

If it's public land GK, don't you get stuff nicked?

I agree about seasonal eating. I think life is more fun that way anyhow, but one of the main advantages of food trade is that foods which won't grow in certain parts of the world can still be eaten there. So, for instance, Scots no longer have to rely so heavily on oats as they once did. I like having the opportunity to eat the occasional South American mango.

And as for bananas....
My mother had never even seen a fresh banana until she was in her teens! She had seen and eaten dried (whole, not those hard chips) ones because her family's neighbours happened to be from Jamaica and they were sent parcels.

Right, gransnetters, who eats bananas seasonally? Come on, own up

Who put raisins on their porridge or cereal every day?

Who uses spices like cinnamon?

I could go on ad nauseam. I'm really trying to restrain myself from saying Get Real.

Oops!

nfk interestingly enough, no it doesn't. It's as if people inherently respect it. Of course husband working in it is now a familiar figure. If people want stuff, they tend to strike up a conversation and then ask to try something, or of course we offer, especially if there's a glut. Also, it is just outside our front gate so we would see, hear (or hopefully wake up) if someone was in there.

The only one occasion when "we wuz robbed" was when someone knocked at the door and asked whether her children could pick strawberries, I said "Sure", only to discover when it was too late that they had decimated the strawberry patch and taken practically all of them. And we had a bumper crop that year. So I learnt a lesson that day.

I use cinnamon on my porridge every morning- it is good for cholesterol- does it mean I get real? Come on, it is all a question of common sense, really. And I've never heard of anyone wasting tons of cinnamon ;)

There's a waiting list for allotments around here - trouble is, there's no waste ground either!

How do you know what grumppa was saying, elegran?
What word do you suggest the organic movement uses instead?
I thought they used the word organic because most of the herbicides and insecticides that are used on the food that most people eat are inorganic.

The village I live in has a village allotment. They grow organic fruit and veg, and whoever helps can get the fruits of their labour, literally.

"We should be celebrating the fact that we have got past the stage where people in Britain starved because there wasn't enough food. We have done this through global food trade. It's called civilisation and development. May it come quickly to places that still need it, I say."

Not heard of foodbanks, thatbags?