Veganuary

Doodledog You should read van Tulliken's book or other similar literature about the extent that many food stuffs are refined down and chemically treated to be products that are devoid of the vitamins, fibre and trace elements that are so essential for nutrition and then reformed witht the addtion of chemicals of all kinds that have not before been in the food chain before to ensure that every supermarket loaf is absolutely identical to evey other. the evidence is there that these types of product contribute to obesity, diabetes and other ills that so many people have. These foods are not the foodstuffs grown in the field. They are the result of industrial manipulation and unutritional.

More generally, no one has suggested there is anything wrong with veganism, but some vegans make claims for the diet of vegans as a group that are not correct.

Whatever your dietary choices the fact remains that there is a lot of food available, which is over processed and, long-term, damaging to your health - and this applies as much to food that vegans can and do eat, including products marketed directly at them, as to the food other people eat.

There are some proselytising vegans on GN, who do not eat these overprocessed foods and try to pretend that the overprocessed food is either not there or not eaten by 'true' vegans, but these same people are insistent in seeing all omnivores as a group eating meat raised in ways that is highin emissions and its footprint on the world,and ignoring the group who only buy meat that is environemntally beneficial.

They cannot have it both ways, claim the moral high ground for a select group of vegans with the highest ethicals standard and then compare themselves with omnivores as a group, leaving out all vegans who do not reach their high standards.

If we are talking about generalities, and groups consisting of all those who describe themselves as vegans or omnivores. then many in both groups eat a lot of over processed foods

Agreed, nightowl. Food is food - I don't see how it can be 'fake' unless it pretends to be something it's not, which vegan food doesn't. If it did, vegans wouldn't buy it ).

How sad that a nice, positive OP has led (as always) to a criticism of veganism. So much for live and let live

The book to read is by one of the van Tullikens^ Ultra-Processed People: Why Do We All Eat Stuff That Isn’t Food … and Why Can’t We Stop? ^. That makess clear what fake food is.

Plenty of ‘fake’ food in the shops Norah and in restaurants, particularly some with their vegetarian and vegan menu offerings.

Nope we won’t be doing it. Each to their own of course, will be carrying on eating the way we have done for few years everything in moderation that includes white meat only plenty of fish too and fresh fruit veg

I would describe as fake food, food pretending to be what it isn't. You see them all round the supermarkets some product pretending to be bacon with no bacon in it. A daily paper, I cannot remember which did a survey of the best 'turkey' joints for vegans and vegetarians. There was not a shred of turkey in any of them.

Sausages, burgers etc are different, it descibes a way of preparing food. I absolutely love beanburgers, I am less keen on burgers made from meat. But now, as others have commented, burgers are made from some extruded over-processed substance textured and flavoured to taste like beef. Some even have beetroot huice in them so they go pink and extrude a pink substance that looks like blood when they are cooked to be 'rare'.

Most snack goods are what I would describe as fake foods, not crisps, although I saw a description of how Pringles were made today. No wonder I never liked them.

I will have to come back to this as I need to go out now for an appointment.

‘If we are to permit vegans….’ - really? Just who would have the say so of this? So we would be banned for voicing our opinions? Funny, I thought GN was a forum for doing just that.

Doodledog, I absolutely understand why some vegans like meat substitutes and “burger” and “sausage” are just shapes.
My problem is when only meat substitutes is considered vegan, one of my young colleagues ranted that a vegetarian restaurant had nothing for vegans as it had no plant based meat substitutes.
It’s like a previous contributor said about a cafe only offering vegan cheese, probably because they felt they had to appease the “vegan woke”. Not everybody wants it and real choice is being eroded for the majority of us who just put up.
My husband and I go to A Play, A Pie and A Pint. You had a meat pie or a veg flan or bake. Now it a vegan sausage roll.
I hate sausages, the look, the texture the smell, I think they are revolting. So I get nothing.
I long for the days when you could get a decent bean or veg burger. These are disappearing replaced by the dreaded plant based ultra processed, according to my colleague “real vegan food” the stuff with the green V

I believe that, in the UK at least, animal welfare is considered far more than it was when I stopped eating meat 35 years ago. The campaign goes on Gillycats

It’s interesting that some are saying that they only eat organically raised animals etc. But most omnis don’t, by a long chalk. Most animals suffer horribly because of the demand for cheap meat.

Where is all this 'fake food'?

I don't recall much 'fake food' ( for meat eaters or vegans) in the shops. One-offs we've tried we didn't like (cheese, 'hamburgers', quorn). Perhaps I shop incorrectly because I prefer to be home?

Lets be clear there is poor quality over processed food available whether you are vegan, vegetarian or omnivore, and if we are to permit the vegans on this thread, I might say on this site, to react, like a Victorian spinster seeing a piano leg, to the idea that fake bacon, chicken, pork sausages or cheese ever enters their home, let alone passes their lips, They in their turn need to accept that being an omnivore, does not mean cheap chicken pumped up with water, or beef from food lots in the USA, with huge emissions.

We omnivores can be just as prone to having the vapours at anyone suggesting that we would eat meat that doesn't meet the highest welfare and environmental standards.

The meat I buy is all raise entirely on organic pasture all year roune, supplemented wih hay grown on the farm or bought in from an accredited supplier. This method of rearing lifestock, as people like James Rebank and the Knepp estate in Sussex have shown, can be environmentally neutral and even contribute to carbon sequestering.

I am more than ready to accept that all the vegans on GN occupy the moral high and ground have never touched, still less eaten a piece of non-dairy cheese or meat, but they in their turn must play fair with us omnivores, by accepting that we too have high standards and only eat meat raised to the highest environemtal and welfare standards.

The alternative is that they have to accept that however pure they are, an awful lot of other vegans do hoover up these over processed fake animal foods, otherwise why are the supermarkets full of them? And us purist omnivores will accept that many omnivores eat meat withotu ever thinking about how it was reared.

I’m not vegan. I’m not even vegetarian now, although I was for decades and my husband still is.

What I don’t understand is why so many people say they don’t understand why those who are vegan (or vegetarian) like meat substitutes. What’s difficult about it? If you like the taste of something you will want to eat it, and if you have decided for your own reasons (which you are not obliged to defend) that you are not going to eat animal products you may well seek out alternatives to the food you have eaten since childhood, and which humans are primed to want in their diet.

A sausage or a burger is a just recipe anyway - animals don’t come with them attached. Forming ingredients into convenient shapes is how cookery works, and I can see nothing wrong with the concept of ’vegan sausages’. The prawns sound disgusting, but so are the real things IMO - food is literally a matter of taste. Making a pie is just a way to get food on the plate, whether the filling is steak or mushrooms (or both), just as a burger is a convenient way to fill a bread roll, whether is is made of meat or lentils.

Do people really not understand that, or is it faux perplexity?

Each to their own. Vegetarians and vegans are doing an important, wonderful job of making more people think about what they eat and where it comes from.

I do eat meat. And enjoy it. From a local butcher using local meat grazed out most of the year on biodiverse marshes and fields and slaughtered locally (very fortunate to have a local slaughter house - which I have been in and learnt about keeping animals calm and not killed in sight of each other. Adrenaline, they said, makes meat tough.) The animals have a good life and their death is much quicker than for a lot of humans. I don't eat fish if I can help it as it's not killed outright.

I don't like sausages or burgers. I am very garlic intolerant and have to be careful of all alliums. Quorn also makes me sick, and I'd love to know why. So, I'm an omnivore. I don't eat much meat, but I'll stick as I am. If being vegan/vegetarian suits your digestion and health, go for it. But it's not for everyone.

Exactly, Vegansrock. I never get anaemic and rarely get ill in spite of my disabilities. Blood tests always come back with good results. My cousin is in his 80’s and has been vegan for over 40 years. He’s out walking his dogs on Dartmoor most days and is very active. I simply can’t eat a diet that causes so much suffering to living creatures, but that’s me. I appreciate many don’t care and will continue to follow an omni diet. It’s their personal choice.

Brian Bilston nails it yet again

Well said vegansrock

I am glad that being vegan or vegetarian is so much more normal than it was even 20 years ago.

I volunteer in a community café and take orders for drinks and light meals. There is always a vegan soup and cakes available as well as every kind of milk alternative. Some customers are surprised that we also sell meat products but these are carefully sourced from local organic farmers. Everyone is welcome!

I get why meat eaters want to continue to eat meat - they are used to it and like it so naturally will defend their choices. I stopped eating meat 60 years ago and have no desire to eat anything that resembles dead flesh. I avoid over processed food if at all possible. The fake meat is an attempt by manufacturers to make a profit by appealing to those meat eaters who want to cut down but still want familiarity. It’s evident people can live healthily without meat. It’s a choice - if people really knew what went on in the dairy and meat industry a lot more would cut down which is a good thing for the animals and the planet. Veganuary is worth a go - For anyone who want to try it!

About 30 years ago, we took a vegan teenager with us on a self catering holiday in France.
She prepared all her own meals from scratch-no pretence of making stuff taste like meat and no sanctimonious chat about what a good person or how much healthier she was for being vegan.
I still cook some of the veggies the way she did, just because they taste good. However I, like most omnivores, prefer healthy variety, without the need to convince others that I’m right.

Most fellow vegans I know make their meals from scratch. They are so much tastier than processed food. I think many omnis forget that bacon is processed, chicken is often pumped with water and so on. I think veganuary is a great idea but maybe a step too far for many, so perhaps vegetarianuary would be better for many. It’s much healthier either way than eating red and processed meats.

Mogsmaw Norah I understand your confusion, there seems to be two types of vegans. Those, like yourself who have chosen a lifestyle where they consume no animal products. You eat meals based on plants, seeds and grains. It’s a healthy way to eat with a variety of wholesome often home cooked meals. There are huge amounts of meals that are suitable for vegetarians and your type of “ old school vegan”.

Thank you.

For us a life choice, health, fat, chemicals, additives - we easily control by changing our old recipes a bit. I make the best burgers in the world with beans, veg, nuts, spices, bread crumbs - what's not to love!

I didn’t like the taste or constituency of vegan cheese even before I read this.

www.eatingwell.com/article/290804/what-exactly-is-vegan-cheese/

It’s a vegan foodstuff for vegans. It isn’t cheese, because cheese is a dairy product.
It’s possible that some vegan simulated cheeses taste good, but recently I noticed that a local cafe now serves jacket potatoes with a vegan substitute for cheese.
Fine for vegans, but actually disgusting to look at and taste if you want the real thing.
After many complaints, they now offer customers the choice, and it’s quite easy to tell if they get it wrong.

Is the calcium content of vegan cheese as high as cheese made from animal milk?

Given that most people become vegan for environmental and ethical reasons I cannot get my mind around them wanting to eat anything that even pretends to be meat. In the same way, I assume that they would never wear fake fur.

Vegan cheeses are really good these days. Try Catgedral City vegan cheddar and also in Holland and Barrett there is a vegan Blue Cheese. They really are good