Changing ways. Permaculture here I come

Exactly karmalady

You've reminded me - must check and see if I've got any French Marigold seeds. I've gathered they're a helpful idea and not to mention the only flowers I have at all in my garden are nasturtiums that I've finally managed to get sorted so that they come up yearly.

Cariad, Huw Richards is amazing and speaks so much good sense. Two of his books arrived this week

I have a heated propagator arriving today, it was expensive and is top range with lights and plenty of space for taller plants. I need to organise my seed packets asap and start sowing. I do not have any space for this big propagator so it will stand on my dining table and I will have to try and find under-bed space for summer storage

I still have a scary area to complete on the plot, and have planted a few basic shrubs 3 cornus miracle, 4 fargesia rufa and 3 wiegela Bristol ruby. There is still plenty of space temporarily covered in builders black plastic. Those shrubs will not ever be invasive and maximum height is 2m.

That plastic is covering bramble, ground ivy and bindweed roots. My plan is to wait until drier weather, uncover a bit at a time and use my chillington digging hoe and canterbury fork to open up the clay surface to extract some nasty roots while causing only minimum damage to soil structure.

I am intending to plant bocking 14 in that area too as it is good for weed suppression. I may also plant more sedum ground cover, which I use at home instead of lawn. I need to cover that open soil with plants.

French marigold and borage seeds ordered, the bumble bees are very welcome on my site and I need to keep them happy.

JandJ, people will never agree when a site is ruled by old fashioned diehards. Good on your son for moving

A few years ago my son, did all that as karmalady describes on his south London allotment. The Allotment association, demanded he remove, cardboard etc a sit lookeduntidy. No amount of explanation would shift their opinion. My son gave up that plot and luckily found another, though some distance away

BTW - Have you come across Huw Richards? Check out his YouTube channel.

He's a young guy in West Wales that has been going from strength to strength over the few years I've been watching him.

He has changed his way of gardening over those years and for the last couple of years has gone down the permaculture line. His newest venture he has just gotten going is to sell more unusual and permaculture plants. Thankfully - as I've been "beating the drum" for some years now for a local supplier of such plants to become available and looks like we've got one now! He's pretty ambitious and determined and experimental in his outlook.

Don't know who else is in this area - but it's well-known here that the soil is clay. Hence why I was looking for someone permaculture-oriented/young/ambitious and in this area - as I thought it would certainly be best for someone like me with my way of gardening.

karmalady

Yes I am very careful about where I put my comfrey bocking 14, it does indeed grow from a tiny portion of root. I have grown it for 15 years and it does not extend over its boundaries, they give me three cuts a year for my hotbins and the bumble bees go crazy for the flowers. I can put the leaves under soil in the beds too, they heat up and make lovely compost very quickly

So I have finished my outline plan of where the beds are, also shed, water, permanent plantings etc. I have taken 12 copies and will file them to use one every month. It is going to be hit and miss for a couple of years while I concentrate on cover crops and getting the goodness into the soil. I have very compacted clay all over the plot so I need raised beds to avoid walking on planting areas. First job is to concentrate on building good soil

The two comfrey beds, rhubarb bed and jerusalem artichoke bed are not raised but I put manure on and lifted the clay lightly, I edged them with lawn edging to keep the chippings on the paths. So far so good

Sounds very organised re the copy per month.

My sympathies re clay soil and I've had my struggles with having that myself. One of the first things I did was that I noticed there was barely literally any sign of life in my garden when I bought the house. Cue for literally everything got ripped up from the earth beds (ie basically what I call "old womans shrubs" - you can tell what I think of them from that).

I didn't even notice one solitary little earthworm!!!! Cue for I literally bought in some bags of earthworms and let them loose with a "There ya' go mates - get chomping and turning the earth" and I think that helped. Basically I've thrown pretty much everything I can at the soil to help break it down a bit and I think it's helped.

But yep....that's part of the reason why I've gone for raised beds - so that I can have a bit of the garden that's more "normal"/easy to work earth to plant in.

I have ordered a few wild garlic plants and they will underplant in a small semi-shaded raspberry bed in my home garden. The autumn raspberries were only planted last year and had sawfly, which turned all the leaves into lace. I think the scent from the garlic will help. I am also going to put nasturtiums in to trail over the soil and help shade the wild garlic. I think I will empty one of my hotbins today and lay the compost on the raspberry bed. First I will hand weed the bed. That is my job for this morning

Woollywoman, I decided not to grow anything tall which needs covering to protect from cabbage whites or pigeons. The allotment site is very windy and plots get a lot of damage from the storms. I will be using low and stable covers, that I already trialed during the recent storms. Those particular nets did not move. They are only 0.8 m tall at maximum

Wild garlic came with someone’s throw out pots I was given containing fuchsias and other shrubs. Planted them in east facing open bank They have multiplied

Whilst on perennial vegetables how about perennial kale? I have a couple of plants that keep me supplied throughout the winter, and the summer if I put butterfly netting over them. They keep on giving although they are not a long lived perennial and you need to take root cuttings or use layering every few years. If you are interested in perennial vegetables then Chris Smith of Pennard Plants, based in Somerset, is the expert.

You might like perennial cabbage, Karmalady? It grows fast, to a metre squared, and can be harvested regularly.

It needs protection from slugs and cabbage whites - netting etc. It propagates really easily - I just stick cuttings in glasses of water.

midgey

Be very wary of comfrey! I remember my mother having to use the lawn mower to try and control the stuff!

What's that plant that is supposed to relieve headaches and joint pains?
Feverfew? It self-set everywhere, I had a job to get rid of it.

I am trying to persuade DH to use cardboard on the veg beds but he's not convinced.

Yes I am very careful about where I put my comfrey bocking 14, it does indeed grow from a tiny portion of root. I have grown it for 15 years and it does not extend over its boundaries, they give me three cuts a year for my hotbins and the bumble bees go crazy for the flowers. I can put the leaves under soil in the beds too, they heat up and make lovely compost very quickly

So I have finished my outline plan of where the beds are, also shed, water, permanent plantings etc. I have taken 12 copies and will file them to use one every month. It is going to be hit and miss for a couple of years while I concentrate on cover crops and getting the goodness into the soil. I have very compacted clay all over the plot so I need raised beds to avoid walking on planting areas. First job is to concentrate on building good soil

The two comfrey beds, rhubarb bed and jerusalem artichoke bed are not raised but I put manure on and lifted the clay lightly, I edged them with lawn edging to keep the chippings on the paths. So far so good

Do be careful where you plant the nettles as they have an extensive root system and could get into your plot unless plated at a distance. Regarding Comfrey the blocker version is sterile and does not seed but if dug up the roots will regenerate wherever they go so make sure you have a permanent spot for it.

Wild garlic likes shaded wooded areas and I don’t think rhubarb leaves will give it the conditions it requires. I am trying to establish some in my small wood. The beauty of it is that by June it will have disappeared below ground so not bothered if it invades.

This sounds an amazing project, I look forward to hearing how it progresses. I agree re the potatoes, I find them much easier when they are in containers, picking them is back breaking otherwise, and I always seem to miss a few.
I know nettles are good for the environment, but I’d never deliberately plant them myself, because I can’t get rid of the ones at the end of my garden, a bank which I’m now trying to grow shrubs on. They are so strong and hard to remove, nettle roots spread so many inches and when you try to take them out, little bits of roots sprout up again, they are the bane of my life.

Admits I wonder too re buying nettle seeds - as one can usually find some somewhere or other nearby.

NB; I recall trying out nettle pesto on a work colleague one time - and he looked distinctly dubious at the thought of it. But then promptly decided he liked it. I didn't think I'd like it myself - but I certainly do.

Me - I'd be interested to know how many square feet people plan on dedicating to growing food. As far as I can figure out 3 of 4' x 4' raised beds is deemed to grow a noticeable amount of food for one person. Cue for I've got a lot more than that and also grow straight into what earth there is in my garden (ie that's dedicated to fruit trees and shrubs basically). As time has gone on I'm moving in the direction of just plant whatever-I've-got in whatever-spare bit of space there is and it is all very much veering in the direction of permaculture.

Basically my heart sank when I realised just how many houses in the area I now live in have "concrete and tarmac" gardens - ie not "proper gardens". But where there's a will there's a way - and hence growing directly in what soil there is and plonking raised beds on top of much of that "concrete and tarmac".

karmalady

midgey

Be very wary of comfrey! I remember my mother having to use the lawn mower to try and control the stuff!

midgey, comfrey bocking 14 is not fertile and does not spread. I very highly recommend that variety. I grew it from 2010 and it was always well behaved and remained in its boundaries. I have a small patch in my house garden but not enough to plunder roots. Ebay is a good source. It is the most wonderful source of goodness for soil, better than cow or horse manure

I understand what you are saying, other comfreys seed like crazy, especially wild comfrey

Errr....I bought several comfrey plants. Changed my mind subsequently and dug them up. Result = I've still got comfrey plants and about twice as many as I had to start with at that.

So I'd say = once you've planted comfrey you've got it from then on inwards.....

I'm afraid I had to laugh at the concept of buying nettle seeds. Nettles are the bane of my life and I'm constantly trying to eliminate it from our horses' paddocks. They do eat it if we cut it down and leave it to dry out but I really don't want as much as we have, and it spreads like wildfire.

Perhaps I should go into business as a nettle seed and wild garlic supplier.

How do you make your nettle liquid?

I’ve found the cabbage white caterpillar can still penetrate tight cabbages like Hispi, savoy and others, similarly cavolo nero, mine are always netted. I buy a roll of debris netting, the holes are small enough to defeat the folded butterfly wings and it’s cheaper than most of the others.

I agree Maizie..rhubarb was just a suggestion.. I usually find mine in wooded areas.. but worth a try

karmalady

Brilliant idea Pascal 30, you have been thinking outside the box. The rhubarb I planted is poultons pride and they are small, so I will visit your idea next year. Thank you

I'm not sure that the rhubarb would be well enough grown when it is needed to shade the wild garlic. But I suppose it's worth a try.

I have absolutely masses of the stuff, it grows along the beck that runs around our boundary. I might try potting some up and growing it in open conditions to see how it fares. Sometimes plants defy the recommendations for optimum conditions and thrive where they're not supposed to

karmalady

Thanks WW2.

I see that it needs shade/deep shade and damp. I don`t have the correct allotment conditions unfortunately. I`ll have to forage

Well, honestly it grows absolutely everywhere it can put its roots down!!

So what you could try would be to put it north of a shrub or something that gives it shade to start off with. You wouldn’t loose much, if it didn’t work.
Forage for seed heads and see what happens.

Brilliant idea Pascal 30, you have been thinking outside the box. The rhubarb I planted is poultons pride and they are small, so I will visit your idea next year. Thank you

My job today is to draw a decent plan of the allotment as it is now. I have 9 covered raised beds in permanent positions, 4 flat spaces plus one 8 x 4 decaying wooden bed. I have planted alliums in the wooden bed, jerusalem artichokes in one flat bed, rhubarbs in another flat bed and the other 2 are going to be comfrey beds

A month by month guide as I progress, so an A4 plan x 12

I am not counting the shrub/flower area, I still have brambles, bindweed and ground ivy to deal with in that area

I'm interested karma lady, but don't even know what permaculture is yet. Will google and follow. I don't know if I am fit enough to grow my own, but do have a big garden.

Perhaps use the Forest Gardening technique Karmalady and grow it in the shade of say rhubarb