Illegitimate births

henetha

Thanks Growstuff. I appreciate your comment.

I can't imagine how horrible it must have been to have known that you were rejected by your own parents.

I didn't find out properly until I was 14 what my true background was. I didn't fully understand the whispers and comments.
Our neighbours knew long before I did.

I think some attitudes still persist to this day. Illegitimacy has become accepted and I truly hope children aren't put up for adoption (or worse) just because they're illegitimate.

Nevertheless, we're still having discussions about the number of people on benefits and debating whether poor people are "deserving" or "undeserving". Single mothers were considered undeserving, especially if they had a number of illegitimate children. (Little mention of the men, although parishes did make them pay towards the upkeep of their children, if fatherhood could be proved - that changed after 1834.)

I'm reading a book about the Poor Laws since the Elizabethan Age. A word which comes up quite frequently is "indigent", which I don't think is used today. It means so impoverished that people don't have the means to support themselves. There are still people like that, but we call them something different. Interestingly, it seemed as though it was accepted in the 19th century (and before) that there would always be some people who are indigent. There were heated debates about what to do with them.

I was illegitimate but adopted as a baby. My Aunt who was a religious woman would have nothing to do with me and stopped her son my cousin from seeing me too. My Uncle her husband would come to see me alone. When I was grown up and married with a baby my Uncle visited me brought by his son. My cousin dropped him at the gate and would not cross my threshold - a grown man in his 40s. Hopefully these attitudes have disappeared, this was in the 1960s.

M0nica

My MiL was a teache rin a rural area and said during her teaching career (1930s-early 1970s). A number of children passed through her class with mothers in their 50s, whose last previous child was 15 years old or more.

She said in these cases a pregnancy in an unmarried daughter would be hidden by the mother saying it was her child. In many cases these girls were the victims of incest and their faher had fathered the child.

I've got a 20 year gap between youngest and oldest and biggest gap is 15 years. I hope no one was thinking I was the gran. I certainly don't like the idea of teachers drawing those sort of conclusions. My eldest was at school in the 70s and I'm really horrified at the thought of what might have been said about me.

Just for clarity my dad died when I was a child and no incest.

In the parish registers that I looked at researching my family there were frequent “natural” children, the poor girls in the 19th century faced a bleak future. The frequently lost what job they had and parents disowned them, because on this a lot of babies did not survive, there was a death entry soon after, so sad to see.

Yes, a couple of great grandparents on both sides. There were some fibs told for sure! My daughter's Dad's maternal grandmother bolted and left quite a few with their father's or farmed them out to 'Aunties". Think she got married once but had 11 children by around 6 different fathers.

theworriedwell It wasn't a question of drawing conclusions. It was common knowledge. Were you in your mid-late 50s when your youngest child was born?

These were families that she had known all her life. In small country towns and villages everyone knew exactly what was happening in every other family. It was known what was happening in families, but nobody said anything and everyone would accept that the child had been born to a woman in her late 50s who had never looked pregnant, while knowing full well what the story really was.

One thing I’ve always hated about living in a small community is the gossip and lack of privacy.

Living in a large community is much more “restful”

Our neighbours are a friendly bunch, but I’m not aware of any gossip concerning other people, their marital status or other stuff, unless it is kindly enquiries, and offers of help etc.

growstuff

jusnoneed

I transcribe records for a couple of online sites, and there were many single mums. Sometimes they had multiple children over the years. And when you check marriages and first births there are lots that occur within a few months of each other.
You sometimes find the child is baptised with the fathers surname as a middle name. One lot of records I did had a single woman having more than one child with the same married man(he also had children with his wife). The vicar in the parish wrote the names of the fathers beside the baptism records, how he knew all of them is the question!
Also some shown as son or daughter on census records are more likely to be grandchildren.

My mum was one of five children that my unmarried Nan had.
Many, many more born without married parents these days, my youngest included, records will be much harder to search and work out in the future. Myself and my partner have been together for over 40 years but there will be no record of that.

It's going to be a nightmare for future genealogists!

My daughter is married, but hasn't taken her husband's name. I have no idea what they'll do, if they have children.

My daughter in law hasn’t taken my son’s name, though they are married. After some discussion, the children have my son’s name.

M0nica

theworriedwell It wasn't a question of drawing conclusions. It was common knowledge. Were you in your mid-late 50s when your youngest child was born?

These were families that she had known all her life. In small country towns and villages everyone knew exactly what was happening in every other family. It was known what was happening in families, but nobody said anything and everyone would accept that the child had been born to a woman in her late 50s who had never looked pregnant, while knowing full well what the story really was.

Well you said it was hidden and now it's something everyone knew. In their 50s and now you're asking me if I was mid to late 50s. Of course depends what age she was teaching but even if it was reception the mother could have been mid 40s when baby was born not far off my age when youngest was born.

If she knew there were girls having their father's babies I hope she reported it to the relevant authorities rather than gossiping about it.

PS - my friend’s granddaughter, whose parents aren’t married but have been together for about 30 years, also has her father’s name.

One of my daughters has kept her maiden name after marrying her long-term partnet, but they have no children (and she is too old to start now). I know of one illegitimacy in my direct line, a 3x Gt grandfather, but he was Scottish and things were different there in the 1750s. He freely admitted it (so presumably his natural father had "acknowledged" him, which was enough) but it didn't stop some of his Scots/English descendents being totally shocked. According to some correspondence on the matter "The Aunts (probably his daughters) refused to discuss the matter" when asked. A pity, as they probably knew who the father had been.
Another of my direct ancestors was born 4 months after a marriage.
One was transported to Australia for assaulting a Gamekeeper while poaching, leaving several children (including my Gt Gt Grandmother to be) and his wife behind. When he decided not to return after his 7 years abroad, she produced 4 more children.
One ancestor (in Norfolk) acknowledged that a child was his and a note was put in the baptism register. He later married the mother, after his wife died, and they had another child.

There were plenty more illegitimacies in that particular branch, but none in my direct line. One lady was a "serial offender". Perhaps her beau was still married to someone? Divorce was often not possible.

Both my husband's parents were illegitimate. Through DNA my daughters now know who one of their missing Gt Grandfathers was, but the other is still uncertain. We do suspect he was Welsh and have a good idea of the possible surname, but no positive identification. My f-I-L used his mother's surname and his step-father's Christian name, when he married, to complete the "name of father" box.

Happily, regarding my Scottish progenitor, the "sins of the father" did not go beyond the 3rd generation. A Great Granddaughter from one of his marriages married a Baron!

Love researching family tree stuff! So far I've found first cousins who married and were shunned by the rest of the family, an ancestor who drowned himself in a water butt, and a 5 times great grandfather who was born on a plantation in Jamaica, where he's described as 'quadroon' (in those days meaning a quarter black) and his mother as a 'mulatto' (half black) I find it absolutely fascinating, and very inspiring, that my 5xGG somehow got from a Jamaican plantation, to Edinburgh where he ran a shoemaking business.

theworriedwell

M0nica

My MiL was a teache rin a rural area and said during her teaching career (1930s-early 1970s). A number of children passed through her class with mothers in their 50s, whose last previous child was 15 years old or more.

She said in these cases a pregnancy in an unmarried daughter would be hidden by the mother saying it was her child. In many cases these girls were the victims of incest and their faher had fathered the child.

I've got a 20 year gap between youngest and oldest and biggest gap is 15 years. I hope no one was thinking I was the gran. I certainly don't like the idea of teachers drawing those sort of conclusions. My eldest was at school in the 70s and I'm really horrified at the thought of what might have been said about me.

Just for clarity my dad died when I was a child and no incest.

Am sure this was the case sometimes, Mums claiming the baby was their own in order to avoid shame.DP’s Mum had him when she was 45, his brother 12 years younger than him.No daughters involved.I think tongues wagged far more in the past than they do now, happily.

Some interesting stories on here, when retired I may have to do some research.Dad’s family were from Vienna and Mum’s Londoners from way back when. Mind you, when digging its possible we may not like what we find.

Oreo

theworriedwell

M0nica

My MiL was a teache rin a rural area and said during her teaching career (1930s-early 1970s). A number of children passed through her class with mothers in their 50s, whose last previous child was 15 years old or more.

She said in these cases a pregnancy in an unmarried daughter would be hidden by the mother saying it was her child. In many cases these girls were the victims of incest and their faher had fathered the child.

I've got a 20 year gap between youngest and oldest and biggest gap is 15 years. I hope no one was thinking I was the gran. I certainly don't like the idea of teachers drawing those sort of conclusions. My eldest was at school in the 70s and I'm really horrified at the thought of what might have been said about me.

Just for clarity my dad died when I was a child and no incest.

Am sure this was the case sometimes, Mums claiming the baby was their own in order to avoid shame.DP’s Mum had him when she was 45, his brother 12 years younger than him.No daughters involved.I think tongues wagged far more in the past than they do now, happily.

Horrible to think of people gossiping about you, particularly when they've got it so wrong or is it worse to gossip about some young girl like that?

Peopel are putting far too much emphasis on the age gap I mentioned. This would not have been the only factor taken into account and anyway in some cases when aa woman had a child in her mid/late 40s, and then supposedly had one in her mid 50s the gap would be much less.

It is a question in these cases of looking at the whole picture, not just jumping to conclusions from one fact. In small communities families are known, their history, and the predilections of the fathers.

I had difficulty tracing what happened to my grandfather’s mother. Evidently his was an illegitimate birth and he was brought up by his grandparents, even naming his grandfather as his deceased father on his marriage certificate, I am now wondering if his grandfather was in fact his father? I shall never know.

His mother disappeared from records until I unearthed that she had gone to live 120 miles away and set up home with a man ( changing her first name as well as her surname ) who claimed on subsequent censuses that they were a married couple. He even registered her death as if she was his wife. Then along came her brother and he got the records officially corrected!
So many mysteries and now nobody alive who can explain them.

So many mysteries and now nobody alive who can explain them.

I do remember asking questions when I was young, to be told "We don't talk about them (or that)!".

My paternal grandfather never knew his father.He was brought up by his mother's parents as their youngest child.His mother was the eldest of their children, she was not married when my grandfather was born.
My grandfather throughout his childhood was brought up to believe his mother was his sister and her parents were were his mother and father. He still regarded his uncles and aunts as his siblings even when he discovered the truth.
His mother worked away from home at various live in housekeeper jobs, including one at a very posh girls' boarding school.She eventually married when in her forties and family legend says she and her husband emigrated, and no more trace of her was found.
Going off the subject of illegitimacy, the 1911 Census entry of my maternal grandfather's uncle has him described as invalid unable to work, and his youngest child as an imbecile.The apparent breadwinner in the family was his oldest child, described as bookkeeper, she was 19 years old.

My mother lost both her parents when very young. Her mother died when she was a few months old. Her father married again, but died when she was 9. Her stepmother brought her up very lovingly, but discouraged her from asking any questions about her blood relatives. “ It’s best left” she was told. Fortunately my mum remembered just enough and had a few documents which enabled me to start researching. I feel sad that she never knew her cousins, aunts and uncles.

Also many people married because a baby was on the way.

Only realised my GP’s did that when I looked at the family Bible and worked out their wedding date and the birth of first baby.

As for DH’s parents, their first baby was brought up by the GP’s. They married later and went on to have several more children. When it was their Ruby Wedding anniversary, the eldest son and his wife tried to make out they had got the year wrong! Tried to put it back a year to make him legitimate.

We all knew, it seems so daft now. This was 40 or so years ago though.

I have only “found” one illegitimate birth, and that was within living memory of my parents generation. But saying that I haven’t really been looking.

I have traced my ancestors but only at a very surface level. It is something I want to do but never seem to have time. I also tend to get sidetracked rather than looking at one particular individual in depth.

I HAVE RESEARCHED MY FAMILY HISTORY BACK TO 1640, NO ILEGITIMATE BIRTHS BT A FEW "JUST MADE IT" BEFORE MARRIAGE. TO MY PURPRISE EVERYONE WAS LITERATE ENOUGH TO SIGN THEIR NAME ON THE MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE.