commitment

I think we are getting away from the heading of this thread which is "commitment".I have explained upthread just why I took on this. It is as much a sacrifice as a commitment and no-one should take it on without long and serious thought as to exactly what it means and just how long it goes on for. In our case we were lucky, my H was retired and was just as keen as me to take it on, and the bond he has with DG was as stong as mine. Sadly his Alzheimer's is changing that as it is with all his relationships. If people feel an obligation this is wrong and it will fester and resentment will grow to a point that things will be unfortunate for all the family. Go into it willingly with no illusions or not at all.

I'm probably going to get shot down now. Mamacaz Why should you juggle everything ? You have enough on your plate. Your Daughter had a second child knowing that she would have child care problems and it seems it is down to you to disrupt your life ! I'm sorry but I am still of the opinion that if you have children it is down to you to work out how they will be looked after . I also think that peoples expectations are so much higher these days and that they don't want to go without anything. Yes , I am aware that there are some that are really struggling.

We are always willing to help out our family in emergencies and love to have the DGC with us. We take them on holidays, have sleepovers and days out but, on our terms .

As a youngish grandparent (54 now), I actually had to give up a part-time job to look after DGC 1 when DiL's maternity leave came to an end. I still have a small amount of income via some self-employed work that I squeeze in around looking after DGS and younger DGD, but this is extremely limited by the erratic childcare arrangements (DS looks after them on his days off but has to work different shifts every week).

DH is retired and only has a tiny private pension on top of his state pension. This means that our income, currently topped up by pension credits, is limited, with no prospect of my increasing it as long as I am caring for the DGCs.

What's more, if I were to commit to the childcare until both DGCs were, say, 14, (assuming that circumstances allowed this, which is very unlikely) I would then still not have reached the official projected retirement age and would somehow or other need to find a full time job to support myself and DH (who by then would be in his 80s).
This prospect terrifies me!

Oh, and there are also my elderly parents to consider too. My dad was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer at Christmas, so they are definitely going to need more and more of our help in the very near future. They live a 2.5 hour drive away. I don't have a clue how I'm going to juggle everything when things get worse!

I think that when young parents have worked so hard to get good jobs, it can be very difficult to get back in the workplace if they take time off. That and the horrendous cost of mortgages frequently gives them little choice, which is of course, then compounded by the cost of childcare.
If GPs are happy to give help then that's great, but I can well understand those who are finding it difficult for whatever reason.

A DF spent two years driving 200 miles on a Sunday night to her DD, childminding to Friday morning and coming home again. She has a disabled husband who couldn't give any assistance and who resented it big time.

I don't know how she did it, and eventually it affected her health. Her DD was most put out when she said that's it.

I agree with your assessment of the situation Mishap

Oh I would defend any parents' right to have a job or career - I just despair that there is this perception that all parents MUST work....and pay someone else to look after their children.

When my daughter informed her car insurance company that she was taking a break to do some full-time parenting (and voluntary work at the school) she was informed that as she was 'Unemployed' her premium would go up!!!!

So in our society being a responsible full-time parent is deemed a higher insurance risk!....That's what I despair at - society somehow demoting parenting.

I think there has also been a change in the mentality of some parents. Having been through Uni etc. and obtaining a good position, they are reluctant to give up their jobs (and the money that goes with them). I'm sure this is the case with our daughter, she was missing her job while she was off, keeping in touch all the time.

My view entirely Hilda - there is no incentive or support for young parents who wish to be stay-at-home parents for a period of their children's lives. The blanket assumption that more child care is a Good Thing is I think quite fundamentally wrong. When parties were fighting to offer the most free child care in the run-up to the election, I found it most exasperating, because no-one addressed the reasons why this is needed, which is that couples cannot afford a home unless they both work. That is where the research and support should be aimed. Not at skewing patterns of child care to sort a broken economic system.

Yes Tegan I do agree about the downside of being the childminder of DGS. We have had a lot of responsibility for the care of DGSs 1&2 over 8 years which has caused us to have to be the disciplinarians. Our relationship with other DGCs in England is completely different we see them 3 or 4 times a year and can concentrate on playing with them. I do so hate having to nag about getting homework done! Also DD expects me to encourage the children to eat a healthy diet and not have too many tooth crumbling treats. The other GPs see them once a week for a few hours with their dad and are able to spoil them rotten. Other granny has a sweet cupboard open at all times for unlimited gorging. Needless to say this makes her very popular!

On the other hand, we get most of the cuddles

My daughter, on her career break has found it very difficult within her circle of friends being the one not working [albeit part time] and can't wait to get back to work; it's as if, having worked so hard for so many years she doesn't know how not to. But, having done a lot of child care over the past 8 years I had said that, if she returned to work I would no longer do so, and that is what is going to happen. Am I feeling guilty? You bet I am. But, as I said, the childcare seems to have changed the dynamics of my relationship with them, and I seem to be someone that is only included in things in my role of 'childminder', and I can't seem to reverse that now. I also feel that, with the children, I have just become the old lady who nags them [not a lot though] when they're dawdling on the way to school etc not someone that they enjoy being with.

I couldn't agree more Hilda. It makes me sad that both parents so often have to work full time, and children spend long hours in day nurseries. I think for a child the next best thing to being in a parent's care is being in a loving grandparent or relative's care and I feel very fortunate to be able to provide this service for my children. It doesn't take away the fact that I am experiencing things they should be experiencing, all those moments with their children that will never come again. But this is the world we have now, and I'm afraid it's becoming impossible to even rent a home on one salary now, let alone buy one.

All these comments on here highlights my (perhaps controversial) views that there is a problem out there with parents working and childcare and life choices. Governments banging on about everyone working and children, almost from birth, being cared for by someone else seems a retrograde step to me. Its getting to the point where I begin to ask 'why have children if you cannot have they joy of looking after them in their early years'.

Yes, I know everyone needs to earn a living and pay their way AND many many women enjoy the control and stimulation a job gives. BUT, where have the choices gone. All those hard fought battles by women in the past to be able to choose a job or a career or to be stay at home Mums.

Its such a huge subject but time and time again we see these problem of families almost breaking under the strain of juggling childcare and jobs - and yet how much better off are they. I've seen everything from 2 high powered parents earning enough for state-of-the-art cars and luxury holidays with a child with a series of au pairs and complex nursery arrangements. To a Hardworking academic dad doing the job he loves for a pittance and his wife staying at home to nurture their children on a very limited income. Guess which was the happier family?

We care for our DGD one day a week and the agreement is that we take holidays as and when we wish and DD makes alternative arrangements or shifts her hours around (she works part time and can do that). My DD was always very clear that she did not want our offer of child care to interfere with us having the opportunity to go away when holidays are cheaper.

It does seem a bit unfair Ethelbags that the other GM is booking a last minute holiday when you are out of action. It isn't as if she isn't aware of this. However, as a GM who pines for a holiday but is restricted by continuous emergency situations with youngest DD and her boys, I can see what others are getting at here. How long have we got old active time to enjoy? And ultimately, it is the responsibility of the parents of the children to ensure care for their DCs.

Normally my DD keeps us informed about what she needs from us and we have this filled in the diary. If we can't help, it is up to her to sort it out. And we give her plenty of notice if we have other commitments.

Unfortunately, we have hit another crisis point so my hopes of a little sun holiday has gone again. We wouldn't abandon her and DGSs when she is vulnerable.

Really paid childcare for working parents has become a nightmare. So expensive! Our DDs have had to abandon it entirely. One has left work. One works part time from home. The other, mentioned above, runs her own very busy business working long hours just to survive (no financial help at all from fathers of her 2 children).

And school holidays are looming again! Ours in N.ireland start end June.

Yes MamaCas it's the guilt that is a killer. No matter how much we do we always feel we should do more and yes Tegan I think it is our menfolk who are more realistic. It does feel we're spreading ourselves too thinly as we also help out with the other dgc in school holidays. As we have responsibilities for very elderly parents as well I feel we are truly the sandwich generation. We have no alternative but to be involved in their care whereas my dgd could go to nursery but I know that will cause financial worries. There's no easy answer but at the moment I feel torn between the needs of my parents, my husband and my dgd.

DGS is over 100 miles away and we're both still working so this hasn't ever been an option but I would willingly help out in an emergency as other grandparents live abroad.

It's good to see other grandparents supporting HildaW's post above.

Now both parents need to work and childcare is ridiculously expensive, grandparents need to help out far more than in previous generations.
I've been looking after grandchildren for 14 years. The youngest is starting school in September but I'll still be needed after school and during holidays until they can be left alone. I find little ones hard work, although it gets easier, but I don't drive and live in a small town with nothing at all for children to do without travelling and spending more than I can afford. I dread wet days with 8 hours of nonstop care even though I love being a big part of their lives.

Our GC are either at school or in full time childcare. This is very expensive even after the free 15 hrs for over 3yr olds. Her problems come with sickness and now school holidays, which is when we get the call out. We try to help when we can, but as I said it is a 270 mile round trip. She has developed friendships with other mothers that help out occasionally.
If both parents either have to, or want to, work, it is always going to be a problem.

Once you start childminding your grandchildren the dynamic of the relationship with your sons/daughters seems to change I'm afraid. As mothers and grandmothers we'll just carry on doing it till we drop, but sometimes it's the menfolk that see things as they really are .

I can really sympathise, grannydil. My DH isn't at all on board with our arrangement, either, so I have an idea of the friction it can cause. He is a similar age to you and your DH (though I am quite a bit younger), and he hates the commitment and the way it limits what we can do.

Unlike you, I said from the start that I couldn't guarantee doing this long-term, and have since said that we can't / don't want to carry on giving this level of commitment once both children are in school. That is over two years away, but knowing that DS and particularly DDil are already very worried about how they will cope, I already feel bad about it.

I have a similar problem. After looking after dgc for 1 or 2 days a week for 6 years my DH has said he has had enough of the commitment. He is in his early 70's and I'm not far behind. For reasons I won't go into I am unable to provide care on my own. I'm aware that this will put extra financial pressure on our DS. We also both have frail parents in their 90's. I feel very torn but recognise that I'm becoming very run down. The mistake we made was not to stipulate how long we were prepared to commit. Any advice would be appreciated as it's causing friction between my DH and me.

I'm reiterating a couple of the comments above, I too wonder if the child care is given freely, or whether the grandparents were presented with a fait accompli when baby was born and there was an assumption that a grandparent/s would automatically give their time, if so, there could be a feeling of being taken for granted and a simmering resentment.

I'm amazed at how much grandparents do, I'm not sure previous generations paid such a pivotal role in child rearing, my grandparents certainly didn't and my mother went back to work full time when I was half way through junior school, but then attitudes were more lax then I think. We just came back from school and fended for ourselves until my mother returned. Of course that wouldn't be possible for very young children, and I'm not sure I'd have been happy with my children of say 8 and 10 being alone in the house for a couple of hours after school, but it wasn't unusual then. Can't even remember what our parents did in the holidays, think they must have shared it a bit and do remember spending a lot of time at a friend's house.

My husband has brought up 2 families, 4 children in total, and then stepped in and played an important role in his granddaughters lives when his son died and is unequivocal at this time of his life, now he is retired, he wants us to be free to go away at the drop of a hat and refuses to be tied down to "set in stone" child minding. We do a once a weekish sleepover with gd aged 5 and have stepped in for emergencies looking after her and baby brother when it was needed. We have also given them a lot of help financially. I'm wondering whether grandparents who take over a large part of the child rearing were ever consulted in the "planning" stages as to whether this is something they want and are able to commit to.

If arrangements have been put in place for child minding between two sets of grandparents then for that to work it would seem essential that they liaise with each other and give due notice for breaks etc. Nevertheless, ultimately it should be down to the parents to look after their own children if their parents, for any reason can't, In particular, I'm agreeing with MamaCaz's comments regarding holidays.

We have no 'hard and Fast' commitments to grandchildren, and wouldn't want to as we see this time of early retirement as being for us to enjoy after bringing up our own children and working hard.Having said that, our children/grandchildren all live close so we see a lot of them which is lovely, they come for meals or just drop in for an hour etc.I see one particular grandson twice a week usually, after school for a few hours, and we have a good bond.we help out when there is sickness, or a problem etc.we would always pick up from nursery if need to, as long as we are here, or school and so on.I know a few people who constantly look after grandchildren and they are very tired, it is a huge commitment to make.Your opposite number, Ethel, has been very inconsiderate though in taking an impromptu holiday when she is needed.I have one friend who is totally taken for granted, and does childcare for weeks at a time out of term time, and it is taking it's toll of her marriage.

I agree with everything HildaW and MamaCaz have said , don't want to repeat all thats been said.