commitment

All employees are entitled to 5.6 weeks paid holiday, pro rata if part time and can include paid bank holidays within this allowance. While I feel it is unreasonable of the MIL of Ethel DD to suddenly take holiday while Ethel is convalescing and unable to help, I really cant see why the parents cant cover some of the child care? Not aiming this at any family in particular, so dont take it as a criticism, but surely, between 2 parents they have 11 weeks paid holiday,most employers ( myself included) are very flexible on staff taking unpaid leave if there is a emergency. Also, I dont know what age DGD is Ethel but there is 15 hours free nursery/pre-school available for all children over two years of age now, maybe your DD and SiL should start looking into this, and leave you and other grandma to do the other days. Not trying to tell you and your family how to run your life of course, but I feel this idea of giving up your life until DGS are at secondary school is not for all.

By the way - is there a Sil too, the children's father? If so, can he not take up some of the slack?

How many weeks' holiday a year is your daughter entitled to, Ethelbags? I think that most people have at least four nowadays, don't they, at least once bank holidays are included?

Is it really unreasonable to expect your daughter to use some (though hopefully not all) of that to look after her own children when MiL is on holiday?
I definitely think that MiL should give more than two weeks notice though!

Yes, well said HildaW

I haven't read all of the answers so far, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something that has already been said.

My question is, how many of those grandparents providing childcare were consulted before the children were even conceived? A small minority, I bet. So what would those parents have done if the grandparents not offered / declined the request to take on this huge commitment?

While I quite agree that those of us who do regular childcare for our DGC should not suddenly drop the parents in it, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to have at least as many holidays a year as our children (if we can afford it, that is!).
Also, shouldn't our children should be booking their holidays around ours, not vice-versa. Mine certainly don't consult me before booking any holidays, and the times they choose for their holidays aren't usually at a convenient time for us to take ours.
I gave my DS and DiL six months notice that I want a fortnight off in September, yet when I mentioned it again (for the umpteenth time) this week, there were comments about them hoping that they still had enough day's holiday left to cover it! Why should I be made to feel guilty, when I take fewer holidays than they do?

Well said HildaW

If grandparents can help with childcare regularly then that's marvellous but just to assume and expect unending 'commitment' seems a bizarre concept. Even if it were a totally business arrangement between a commercial childcare provider (whether a single child-minder or nursery) there will always be occasions when things to do not go smoothly and changes have to be made - believe me I used to run pre-schools and knew many childcarers.

A Grandparent is a person, they have a life - an expectation of choice I should hope. If there has been detailed and exhaustive discussions and formal arrangements made for permanent childcare, then perhaps an unscheduled holiday would be inconsiderate but open-ended arrangements between family members MUST be considerately negotiated and ALL parties wishes and needs taken into account.

Its not about 'commitment' its much more about consideration, respect and being a loving parent/child and grandparent (on all sides).

We are very fortunate to have 8 DGC and so far we have "committed" for 14.5 years, albeit 2 or 3 days a week!
We give a months notice if we go away for a few days.
We currently have 2, under 3 years ,and think our minding days might be ending in 4 years time. School runs and school holiday times are always busy though.
We love being part of their lives.

I don't think anyone is saying parents should expect to rely on grandparents for childcare pompa; all families and situations are different. Like ethel my DD and SIL are not in a position to afford childcare and were much less so when DGS was born almost 5 years ago. Even if they had been, I wouldn't have missed the last 5 years for anything. However that's not really the point, the point is that if GPs make that commitment it's not fair to let parents down at very short notice. I think it's important to have a very clear understanding at the outset and if unexpected events crop up, like ethel's illness, then there needs to be some flexibility on all sides. I think the other GP expecting to swan off on holiday at a moment's notice is completely unreasonable.

Yes pompa it really is horses for courses. Our first GC was born with a horrendous cleft which made feeding very difficult. Her mum needed to work for more reasons than the money and I wasn't prepared for anyone else to look after her than me. A nursery would not have coped in the way that someone who really loved her would. If that sounds big headed so be it. We bonded in a way I have not with my other GC much as I love them.

pompa while I can see your point I must point out that my DD cannot afford to work without free childcare and only grandparents can provide this, the state provides some but their joint income is in excess of the limit therefore she must use GPs. It would be cheaper to simply give up her job, then she would have complications as she would be living on her partners wage, something she will not do as they are both independent.

also none of us wanted our DGD to be brought up with strangers no matter how good they are, she has only ever been left with GPs or her parents.

This raises so many issues.

How many holidays ?? We take as many as we can fit in and afford, at 70 how many more years will I be able to drive and tour Britain ? We have 3 booked so far this year. (4 if you count a week cat-sitting)

Would we give up a booked holiday, only if it were very important, we do tend to book most of our trips via Premier Inns that can be cancelled a 12 hours notice.

Do I think children should rely on GPs for child-minding, NO, they need to organize their lives without reliance on GPs. Our daughter was relying on us for some while (it is a 270 mile round trip). When we were unable to help due to surgery, she did manage to organize an alternative and does so now whenever she can.

When we have immovable stuff booked we let our children know asap so that they can put it in their dairies. They also now give us as much notice as possible. Our next trip to Leicester will be to cat-sit !!!!

I agree that if you have made an arrangement for child care then it should be honoured. That is where making ground rules that both sides understand is vital.

So is mine downtoearth good luck to them both and all the others doing so. She is with us for a few days while Mum is in Ireland at a funeral so we are still first port of call.

just to clarify my DD passed away not GD..she is now 16 and sitting her English GCSE as we speak ..

I have brought my GD up since the age of 4my daughters child ,who passed away,my son is in a relationship with a lovely young woman who has a child from her previous relationship ,she works p/t but would unable to afford childcare so I have made that commitment to have her 12 hours on Saturdays and fit in with her mums working patterns during week,having made that commitment, I work my arrangements around that commitment,they are trying for a child and we have already discussed any childcare I would be willing to give.

I too agree with Ethel - a commitment is just that. In my case both my DD and DiL work in schools and there is no way they can take time off.

It sounds as if you are a very responsible grandmother Ethel. It's hard enough for families these days without their childcare arrangements being disrupted.

I'm with you on this one ethel We looked after the first of our GC three days a week until she went to school, when we took and picked up until she went to secondary school. We arranged holidays around our DinL's holidays and never took any other holidays outside that arrangement. We had made a commitment and we stuck to it. I have warned others thinking of taking it on just how hard it is. Before anyone asks, my S and DiL separated before GD was 2 and as far as childcare went, both he and her parents, bring chocolate teapots to mind.

I agree with that etheltbags. It's like any commitment; if you take it on you have a responsibility to stick with it unless your circumstances change. If you don't want to take it on be clear about that at the outset. Or if you find you don't like it once you've tried it, be clear about that as well. It's not fair to mess about when someone is depending on you and when the other person involved in childcare is recovering from a serious illness.

Our son and his wife have never asked us to make a commitment on childcare, but we do help out when an emergency arises. My DiL doesn't work but has some sport commitments which mean our younger GS needs babysitting, or the older one collecting from school. My DD, on the other hand, is about to become a single mother and will be returning to work for two days a week after 9 months maternity leave. She plans to place her child in a local nursery and has not once asked us to take on the childcare because she knows I have health problems. It may be that we will offer to look after her child, even if just for one day a week, to help her out financially, but we will play this by ear.
I do think, etheltbags that your DD's MiL is being incredibly selfish in this particular instance, bearing in mind that she must know you are not in a position to help at the moment. You would think she could just this once sacrifice her holiday plans and step into the breach. Not only is she causing problems for your DD and SiL, but she's causing you stress at a time when you could really do without it.

the point that I am making is that once committed to childminding, unless health reasons the grandparent should stay committed and arrange holidays at a time agreed with the parents. If a grandparent would prefer to have lots of holidays they should say so at the beginning and the parents would make other arrangements.

When we are back in UK we live in the annex of DS house but it is never assumed we will be available for childcare, although almost always say yes when asked. Other grandparents ( DiL mother and her husband and father and his wife) and us are always asked if and when we can look after the children (3 and 5), take them to and from school/nursery and look after them in the holidays, and often work it out between ourselves. The six of us grandparents have always helped when we can and I am glad to say have never been taken for granted as it was made clear at the very beginning that we have done the children bit and now need to be free to do our own thing.

the MIL never seems to think about anyone else, I gave her my phone no. when we started childminding so we could communicate but she never gave me hers and most of the time she doesn't speak when I hand little one over on the day we share the care.
I am quite happy to promise no holidays until DGD is in school, or at least the most I would do is a short weekend from sat until Monday (days when I don't look after dGD).
Why do people prioritise holidays so much, I have never had a 2 week holiday in my life even when my DH was alive and we both worked and could afford it, I find them boring and im glad to get home, childminding is so much more prefereable

I can totally see the point of an agreement. I am amazed at how much caring grandparents do these days and I wonder if MIL was feeling taken for granted etheltbags.

ginny is right, some kind of agreement is needed for any family friend or relation who regularly cares for children. ethel, if the mil can afford regular holiday (good luck to her and no criticism from me), could she afford to contribute towards replacement child care? I know a number of friends who don't live geographically close enough to help with child care, but contribute the cost of say a days child care for grandchildren.