Advice needed about grandson and daughter in law re discipline - or lack of

Crafting: ' Firstly boys are different from girls so don't expect the same behaviour. '

I am not sure about the above statement. I wonder what others think? If we expect different behaviour from girls and boys, do we not then end up with confirmation that it's 'acceptable or the norm' and encourage it to continue? Not sure I am expressing myself well here- and hope you and others will get my drift. Would be interested in opinion of others on this.

GS is much better behaved than his little sister. We love her to bits, but she is very clever and has perfected the art of divide and rule. To what extent is this related to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd child- rather than sex.

What is the family placing in age between the 2 girls and the boy Crafting out of interest?

Thank you everyone for your comments. Yes, when I have him on his own his behaviour is better as he knows he can't get away with it. We have granny rules in my home and they seem to work.

He clings to his father (my son) whenever there's anyone around and won't leave his side when they're out. I do also sometimes wonder if there is something wrong but feel his school would have picked up on it. He's good at subjects he's interested in and is clearly bright so I really believe it is a discipline problem. As most of you said there's nothing I can actually do without alienating them so I just have to hope he'll be ok. It has helped reading all your comments so thank you.

Ii have two perfect GD who's behaviour is impeccable. I also have a GS who is the total opposite. Firstly boys are different from girls so don't expect the same behaviour.

You have had your go at being a parent. Personally I don't think I was that great. I have always and still do love my children so much but not sure I was a good mum. Far too nervous and worried about children being on their best behaviour (mine grew up very well behaved)

I think it is up to the parents to decide how to bring up their child. If you don't agree with what they are doing why not ask why. See if they have some issues about how you brought them up.

Back to my DGS. He had a couple of horrendous years (at school not at home where he is loved to bits). He has been through so much I cannot believe how he has coped. Maybe you GS has some issues too. Mine is autistic and has been through some tough times that an adult would find hard to cope with. I love him (and my gDs so much) if your GS is fit and healthy, be glad of it. He is a young child. Let him grow and show him you love him no matter what his behaviour.

Love it! Thanks DaphneBroon.

Granny's house, Granny's rules
Or
What happens at Grandma's stays at Grandma's

keep smiling!

Thank you everyone for your comments. On re-reading what I wrote I sound positively Victorian! And yet ... shouldn't we expect decent behaviour from our grandchildren? 7 is supposed to be the age of reason. I just want my dear little boy back, but last time I visited I didn't even get a smile and I wrote my comments feeling very hurt and upset since I do love him dearly. I will take the advice which most of you have given, which is not to interfere. Thank you all again for your wise words.

Children are always a reflection of how parents treat them - it sounds like this boy may have one or both of his parents constantly on his back, nagging him not to do things and conducting a battle of wills behind closed doors - this is called negative re-enforcement and creats a negative reaction when anything is said to the child. It never seems to occur to these parents that it would be better to try and be loving and get along with their child, after all they wouldn't treat another adult like that usually.

chalkhills - I think even very young children can accept that grandparents in their own house expect different behaviour from when they're at home.
We had a situation when some of the children were last here for a week (we live abroad) when 9 yr old DGD was cheeky to her Grandad. By his standards anyway (don't laugh - she laughed and joked when he farted.)I told her she should apologise, and she did. Parents were ok with it.

Say nothing to your son or DIL.......could cause a huge rift.Parents have the last word in child rearing, not grandparents.

Wait until he leaves school and goes to work. He will learn pdq how to control himself and work with other people otherwise he will be out on his ear.

Chalkhills, may I suggest that the " rules" for Grandma's house are set out around the table ( maybe with drinks and snacks) when everything is going well, and everyone is calm.

Rules should be phrased positively, and telling children what to do, rather than what not to do, e.g. " Speak quietly", rather than " No shouting", " Sit nicely on the furniture", rather than " Don't jump on the furniture".

well I guess that is one visit cancelled , I can just imagine what the reaction to written rules will be !

I do so sympathise, and have just been thinking about asking my daughter to get her 7-year old son to write me a simple little apology for being so rude to me when I last visited. I am very worried that he is becoming spoilt. Bedtime is a nightmare every night, so I understand, and one parent has to stay with him until he falls asleep and even then he comes into their bed during the night and one parent decamps to his. It gets me so cross that they have allowed this situation to develop.
Thank you to those who suggested Rules for Grandma's House. They are visiting me soon to stay the night and I shall send my little grandson a copy before they come. It seems to me that my daughter and son-in-law have no real will to tackle all these problems.

Storygran, there are all kinds of books out there on how to discipline children, even difficult ones. Just check it out on Amazon.com.

But I'm sure you've used some of the "tried and true" methods and they don't seem to work. So you may want to look for "How to Talk So Children Will Listen and Listen So Children Will Talk." (Sorry, I can't think of the authors, offhand.) I remember that helping a lot when DH and I were going through a rough patch, years ago, while raising our kids.

Beyond that, I hope you ignore the tantrums, as much as possible. Perhaps check with the parents and ask if she does this with them and how they handle it.

If she doesn't throw tantrums with her parents or nothing you try makes a difference (sigh), then I'm sorry to say, but you may have to let the parents know you can't babysit anymore and they'll have to make other arrangements.

Unless as FN says, she needs some one-on-one time without little sister present. You may want to tell the parents that you'd like to try having them each individually and see what happens.

Meanwhile, Pip, can you tell us if mental/emotional/developmental problems have been rules out where GS is concerned?

I'm wondering if there is a real problem with him. For a long time I secretly thought that GS1 was badly behaved, ignoring people who spoke to him and not doing what he was told. Now he is being investigated for several mental problems and his behaviour is becoming more understandable and easier to cope with.

Has anyone suggested that this boy may have PDA, pathological demand avoidance. It might be worth while comparing his behaviour with this disorder. He sounds like he has some of the problems that children with PDA display.

It's very tricky this one. It is hard to advise adult children how to discipline their children. I always abide by "parents rules" over most things such as types of food they can eat, what they are allowed to watch on TV, bedtimes etc. However, when it comes to my home and how they treat it they know they have to obey nanas rules. If they want your grandson to come to your home, they should understand that he needs to respect it. My grandson's parents restrict his time on technology because it does make him angry and grumpy if he's on it too long. Kids need to get out and burn off some energy.

Children are experts at manipulation. I understand what you are worried about - that your GS is going to fail to grow into a responsible adult, with all that entails.

You say he is 'better' at school. That's reassuring, unless you mean his behaviour I still poor, just relatively 'better'. I assert that 'Nana's house, Nana's rules.' My daughter did once pull me up for telling her son off, and asked me to let her do the disciplining if she was there. Frankly I just ignored that and she seems to have given up on that one.

IMO you and your DH need to agree on how far this child will be allowed to go in your house whether or not his parents are there. If a calm, cool request to stop doing something is ignored you need to get the child to look at you and repeat the request again, firmly. If he acquiesces then gentle praise.

If he persists in ignoring you then you have to make a stand and insist on better behaviour. He, and your DiL, need to know the boundaries.

Could you give her some one to one attention, without her little sister? She might respond better to that.

How does she behave at home?

I have similar problems with granddaughter, 7 years old and won't accept being told what to do when I'm looking after her and smaller sister. Can anyone suggest a book or course to help me deal with this defiance and screaming? I had hoped she would grow out of tantrums - but it's not happening. Perfect behaviour at school though!

Does he literally scream when asked to put his technology down?

This would worry me a lot, along with deliberate destructive behaviour.

Neither of these behaviours is normal, and neither can be explained by lax parenting.

I agree with the suggestion to have a kind word with your son.

Where is you son in all of this? I realise he works a lot so is not around, but he must be around a bit?
If he were my son, I would be speaking with him.
I would be saying that the gs lacks for nothig financially, but may be lacking big time in other ways, such as attention from dad, and maybe even medical issues considering his siblings may be fine.

I feel for you, too, Pip. And I don't blame you for worrying about the boy. But I agree with the others that there's not much that you can do. Whether GS's behavior is simply a result of his parents' style of childrearing, a medical/emotional problem or computer addiction, it's up to his parents to deal, for the most part.

Any attempt to interfere is likely to get you distanced and even cut off from this DS' family. Still, if I thought it might help GS in any way, I might suggest that you take that risk. But, trust me, it won't - b/c his parents won't listen and will, most likely, just defend him if you try to discipline him, yourself.

I agree with others that you and DH can have your own rules in your home (and maybe you do?). But you may find them difficult to enforce with this GS, especially if his parents are there and countermand you. If they're not there but disagree with the consequences you dole out (time out or whatever), then you may hear about it or they might decide not to let him come there again w/o one of them being present. But it's certainly worth a try, IMO.

In the main, sorry to say, you and DH may have to avoid being around GS, at least till he's older. You can't do much about GS, but you can do something to shield yourselves from his awful behavior.

Of course, that will mean not being around DS or GD as much either (sigh). It's a choice you two will have to make. (Maybe you can have a "just girls" day with GD and, perhaps, any other GDs you have, but that's all I can think of to get around that.)

I just hope trisher is right and GS straightens out as he gets older. I've heard of that happening, too, so it's a possibility, I believe.

Pip it is so difficult to stand by and watch. All I can offer you in the way of comfort is the idea that all children rebel in some way against their parents and children of such parents rebel by becoming more conventional and law abiding. I have seen this in practice my neighbour's son had long hair and seemed to spend all his time when he was about 8 causing bother, climbing fences and kicking balls into my garden. He is 14 now, hair is cut short he is well mannered and polite and always speaks when I see him. Keep your fingers crossed, show him a peaceful ordered way of life and wait, you might have the last laugh.