WWYD? Very worried...

Sadly, there is not a lot an ousider, even extended family, can do in this situation.

The best thing would be for your DIL to join AA and your son the organisation for spouses. Perhaps she will be persuaded to do it in order to not risk losing the children. If only she would do this and they agree to another year of waiting to see how it pans out, meanwhile I wonder if there is any possibility of their house being sold and the family moving into something more affordable? It seems their whole lifestyle is not sustainable. I am so sorry for you, it is hard to see their pain and be helpless to assist, but being a solid rock who cares could be a lifeline for them all, especially as the children get older.

The elephant in the room is alcohol!!! And everyone is deflecting away from it , always look for the root of the problem

Hallgreen - the grandfather has been asked not to bath the granddaughters. He has refused to comply. It's this that makes it especially reprehensible and suspicious.

It really is not appropriate for him to behave in this way. The ages of the girls are beyond what would require active help in the shower.

I wondered if someone would post a comment along those lines hallgreenmiss, but then I remembered I recently read that 90% of child sexual assaults are perpetrated by an adult who is known and trusted by the child. I am aware that just because I find this hard to believe, it doesn't mean it's not true. In fact, the older I get, the more I can believe it is true. I suspect the generational aspect is around it being more acceptable to speak out now when it happens instead of hushing it up.

Maybe it's a generation thing but I find it hard to comprehend the responses of some on here to the showering situation. Grandad has probably been bathing these children since they were tiny babies and has not appreciated how grown up they are. To be labelling him an abuser and a risk to other children just strikes me as paranoid. I am perfectly well aware that abusers in the past have got away with it but really, this seems totally OTT.

Thank you again to those kind people who have offered support and advice, both on this board and by PM. I am just off to do some baking to send to the DGC since injury prevents me from travelling to see them all. I wish that we could relocate closer, but I just couldn't cope with the potential for drunken abuse, and my DH simply wouldn't countenance it. Will just continue to be a supportive presence, and give loving advice from a distance. Thank you all again.

Hi NannyMags, DS is dear son, DGC is dear grandchildren. If you look near the top of the page, you'll see a button marked Acronyms and most of the shortcuts are listed there. Everyone has trouble when they start, but you do get used to them. Of course, it's up to you whether or not you use them yourself - some people prefer to type out the words. Hope this helps.

What are the abbreviations( DS?) i get Daughter-inLaw, GrandChildren what is DGC?

I would firstly suggest your son contacts Alanon, which is for friends and families of problem drinkers, he would get much needed confidential support with no other agencies involved, it is a world wide organisation. Maybe your files family have had enough and that's why they've stepped back. There is nothing you can do to change the situation unfortunately, just be there for your grandchildren when they need you

I am sorry to hear about the upsetting situation between your son and his partner and hope they can come to some decisions about their future. Your son should certainly seek advice.
It is of concern what you report regarding your ex husband who has behaved most inappropriately with his granddaughters both now and in the past, thank goodness they have reported it. Too many abusers get away with years of abuse because the victims are too frightened to say anything. I was one such victim and what happened to me has remained with me to this day.
No doubt they will have no further contact with him but by keeping this within the family means he is a certain risk to other children whom he may have contact with either now or in the future. Contact the nspcc, they are very good, or social services for Advice, it's not easy but please don't ignore this.

Well I think your last post OP shows how helpful sharing a problem on Gransnet can be. You seem to have put things in a better perspective. If your Ex isn't seeing the GC that is one less problem to worry about and your son has shown his ability to resolve a problem and protect his children. Your Son and DIL are adults and hopefully will resolve things one way or another and the less you say apart from offering help and support the better. Continue sharing your concerns with these wonderful people on Gransnet and they will help you through.

BJones,
I Didn't realise you aren't in this country so the law could be different. Even if ex wasn't purposely doing anything inappropriate the girls are at an age when they need privacy and were concerned enough to report his actions.As he hasn't respected your son's wishes in the past he needs a sharp lesson.

BJones,
I'm assuming your son hasn't left the home and the children as yet? He has done absolutely the right thing in banning ex from any unsupervised contact when he has been warned in the past about his innapropriate actions.
Involving NSPCC will almost certainly mean they will refer this to social services and police.
Your son is perfectly within his rights to ask the mother to leave and for him to care for the children, assuming he is either married to his partner or is named on the children's birth certificates. Of course there's the problem of his long hours at work so he would need to think carefully about taking some time off until he decides what is best to do. Then as someone else suggested he could move closer to you,or you to him, to help with childcare.
Think this through before making any rash moves. Ex is not allowed contact so that risk has gone but DIL is drinking and being overly strict so that's what needs to be tackled to protect the children,even if it's emotionally. Hope you have good support around you.

Thank you so much,everyone, once again.
Unfortunately, we do not live in the UK, but do have similar systems in this country.
With ref to the ex's behavior - I suspect that he just likes to treat the kids as babies, since he was never able to cope with ours, once they became sassy. However, he has always had "hidden corners". and I would not put it past him being inappropriate. He is a very odd person, with no respect for others' boundaries and personal space. I never did manage to work him out in the years we were together.
I have been telling my DS for weeks that he must contact a solicitor and get his position vis-a-vis custody etc sorted. However, he is holding out for a reconciliation with my DIL and doesn't want to rock the boat. They set a time limit on the separation, and the decision date has come and gone, with no resolution.
I am at my wits' end but realise I can do nothing but support my DS, offer friendship to my DIL (who had a terrible childhood and finds expressing emotion very difficult), and ensure that the littlies know that granny adores them.

All the best with this, Boadicea...you have had some excellent advice so far.

Your ex had been warned about over-stepping boundaries, and he still showered the girls. This rings loud alarm bells - if he had been innocently supervising, then the warning from your son would have been more than enough to stop him, yet he did it again. Totally inappropriate behaviour and highly suspicious.

Your poor DGC

I'm just so sorry for this dreadful situation. I agree with swimwithfish to keep lines of communication open, but I really think you need professional help with this. I agree with CleopatrsSoup that the NSPCC would be a great start to get help.
Just hope you and the rest of the family can somehow resolve this.

I wish I could say something useful, but I can only agree that a good solicitor for your DS is vital, and that the NSPCC can be very helpful. We had the Child Protection team involved when a child in our family had been abused (by a teacher), and they were wonderful.

It seems to me that there are three main issues here, and all of them focus on the wellbeing of the children, which is obviously the priority.

First, is your DS going to try to get sole residency? If their mum has a drink problem and shouts at them a lot, maybe it would be better if they lived with him and she was the one who had access. Obviously, there is the possibility that your DiL will raise the issue of your ex's behaviour but, as your DS responded promptly by removing him from the children's lives, a good solicitor should be able to reassure the court that the children are not at risk in any way. I would have thought that your DiL's drinking problem would have been more of a threat to their future physical and mental health.

Was the showering incident a one-off, or had there been other incidents in the past? If so, do the police need to be contacted, particularly if he has access to other children? (Does he?) Or is this just a case of Granddad overstepping his boundaries and treating them as if they are still babies? I regularly give my GC a bath, and wash and dry the 6 year old as well as the 4 year old. It's just routine to me and I never think about it. Maybe your ex was just being foolish and not thinking it was inappropriate for him to be showering the girls. However, if he has a habit of doing inappropriate things, or has access to other young children, maybe it is necessary to contact the police. The NSPCC will be able to advise you.

If your DS gets sole residency, could he move nearer to you or, if this made it difficult for the kids to see their mum, could you relocate to be closer and able to help him and to take your ex's place in the children's lives?

I'm sorry for the problems you're currently having, it must be particularly difficult for the children. From my professional experience, just a word of caution. If you did describe these events to the NSPCC, they would make a referral to Children's Services who may decide they need to investigate with the police. At best, your ex has not given thought to his actions but they could be perceived in a different light.

This is a family in crisis and in need of professional help. You must be so worried. Would it be helpful if you talked it over in confidence with someone at the NSPCC ? I am sure they will be able to advise you.

Is there any social services involved at any time and level?

Sorry for your situation ? do you think your ex had a sinister motive? I understand it was an emergency situation but it seems strange they would call on him again if there had been previous concerns? Maybe police involvement is the answer (although terrible for the girls). Your son needs a good solicitor. Violence on both sides is never good for anyone. I hope you get some peace of mind & the children are considered in the break up ?

Thank you so much for replies. No, I agree absolutely, and so does DS, they do NOT need to be showered. The ex said he did it because they would have tipped all the shampoo down the drain. Umm...no...they are far too sensible. The police have not been involved, as DS and DIL have dealt with the issue by removing the ex from the scene. But if the DIL wants extra ammunition in possible custody battles, she has it here. I know that this sounds as though my priority is not my GCs, but I assure you I am terribly concerned for them, not least because I was sexually abused as a child, and the shame coloured my whole life. It's a matter of walking a fine line between all the minefields. Again, I do appreciate your contributions.

I am so sorry your family is going through this tough time.
My advice is don't do anything but be there for your DS and DGC when they ask...
It looks like it will be a messy divorce (if it gets there) and you want to do all you can to support your son through this.
I might also suggest reaching out to ExDIL and just say that despite everything you are always thinking of her and the DGC and that she will always be family (as mother of the DGC).

A very tricky situation. I'm. not going to try and advise you.
However, my first thought was, why does he need to shower the girls , they are not babies or even toddlers. My GS is 7 he doesn't like anyone in the bathroom when he showers and is quiet capable of getting himself clean. An adult is always next door in the bedroom.

Are the police involved re your ex husband showering the girls?