Any experience/advice for dealing with a wilful, rude 6 year old?

Anyway not arguing about shift work. My DDiL does it and believe you me it plays absolute hell with "family life". Hers is 7-3, 3-10 and 10-6 (but she gets an early/late finish on night shift to make up for the extra 4 hours worked). Complete rubbish.

Just taken the dog out to try and clarify my thoughts. Thank you "trisher" for pointing out the horror of being a headteacher. I know a shift worker etc would have a harder time in some ways but this is the biggest mistake of DD's life. The school was haemorrhaging money which she's turned round, the staff are a nightmare, the old head had no life outside school so they are all used to her being there until late at night! I can't say much more about that situation for obvious reasons.

I was hoping to show DD this thread but she would be devastated at you thinking she's letting her DD down in any way. She's concerned about me, so emotional at the moment, DD being unhappy and herself which she describes as feeling like she'll have a heart attack, she's so stressed and unhappy. She's doing her v best to get the house sorted, keep all the plates spinning!

My point originally was that mum acknowledges she's hard work, she has no alternative to us doing as much as we do, there are no reliable alternatives to taking/picking up, it was just a throwaway remark about gypsy blood to show how strong willed and determined she is. She's a beautiful, clever, kind little girl whom I love dearly and my purpose in posting was looking for reassurance that at 7 or 8 etc she would perhaps grow out of this phase and become a little angel who loves visiting her grandma! My friend says she doesn't have this problem because she only sees GC once or twice a week, it's the amount we are together that is probably the problem.

Ordinary teachers barely have a family life a lot of the time. Head teachers have it far worse. When I was an ordinary teacher it wasn't unusual for me to work a 60/70 hour week and I know the head teacher worked just as long and often longer. The contact time (class time) is the part we usually became teachers for. It is incredibly fulfilling to help children to learn. Unfortunately far more time is spent on planning, assessing, subject leader work (no extra pay for responsibilities but you can be hammered by OFSTED), talking to parents, data and statistics, forward planning, target setting and everything else they expect you to do.

Hard as it will be the mum needs to set time aside that is planned mum and daughter time. Time when the little girl knows that she is number one.

mazza reading my first post I am a little concerned that I said your DD should sort things out. I think what I really wanted to do was to point out the differences between your lifestyle and the way your DD is living now and how this impacts on your GD. But it has just occurred to me does your GD think that moving out was your fault in some way? Children sometimes have very strange ideas about what is going on and they sometimes draw the wrong conclusions. I think your DD is being incredibly brave in lots of ways, she just needs to get things in balance a bit which is easier to say than do!

my purpose in posting was looking for reassurance that at 7 or 8 etc she would perhaps grow out of this phase and become a little angel who loves visiting her grandma
They are lovely sometimes, hellish the next.
DGS is the worst at 8 because he does know everything!

Sorry mazza but they can all be little buggers so and so's at that age. She is not unusual and it is nothing to do with 'gypsy blood'!

ps a child who is always good and pliable has no spirit!!

although I would add that the parents of my DGC are stricter than I am and don't allow rudeness, so it is not lax parenting.

I think it's great that your DD has taken on a responsible, demanding job. She's being a really good role model for her own daughter. Maybe she could get some help in the home - ironing, cleaning, shopping delivered etc. That's what I did as a HT as I had neither the time nor the energy for any of that. I thought it was a good use of my salary!

I'd second the suggestion of your DGD staying over one or two nights a week. It will be hard work but in a way less stressful because you'll know that you have the whole evening with her rather than not knowing when mum will get home.

You are actually being a mother as well as a grandmother. It's not easy being the person who has to manage behaviour - most grandmothers are just there for the treats. Is your DH taking his share when it comes to setting and maintaining boundaries?

I wouldn't necessarily arrange all sorts of things for after school as suggested above. I think a calm after school period doing 'ordinary' things might be more conducive to a calmer child.

My DGD stays with me two or three days a week and I take her to school, fetch her, supervise home work, deal with school issues, medical appointments etc etc. Guess what - my daughter's a teacher and a single parent and says that she doesn't know how she'd manage without me. What a privilege it is to be able to help.

I think that, as usual, vampirequeen is getting it right. It's not a great life for a little girl. Obviously her mother needs to work but I see my DD with a very responsible job and SIL who is a teacher and I see the long hours and stress involved. I'm not sure how my DD would cope if she was on her own.

Your DGD is protesting in the only way she can by being as awkward as possible and you get the brunt because you're the one who's there. Does she have a quiet space of her own at your house. Are you and your DD able to do something fun together with her at the weekends?

I think that your DD is just trying to give you a break.Don't take it too much to heart.Your GD might just be disappointed in not spending time enough with her mother.Things will start cooling down a bit after they both learn to get adjusted to their routine.You could all go out together during the weekends and do something fun.

I wondered if you were being too strict mazza, your DD is telling you to back off, could your GD be telling her how it is making her unhappy. I remember my DS telling me when he was ten that the children in his new class were very naughty. When I asked him why they were so naughty he said it was because the teacher was very strict. I have seen this many times, over strict parents and children rebel, especially strong willed children.

I have strong willed DGDs, especially GD aged 4, but it's far better for girls to have a strong will when they grow up, it's just a bit hard to deal with while they are young.

Thanks, Grannynise (I can't get this putting things in bold business) you have summed it up beautifully. She has me to do her washing, ironing, etc. I do go and clean a bit at weekends, she doesn't need to do much shopping cause they eat here mostly! DGD does stay here occasionally but she's decided she wants to be in her own bed, hates it here. She has her own room with toys, wardrobe etc, they lived with us for 3 yrs so it's all here. It is a privilege to be able to help, see so much of our GC, she's just so determined and strong!

I'm not being too strict, apparently but I'm not letting things go! It's very difficult to let a child make the dog yelp or bang doors without saying anything. Anyway, things have calmed down, we are all treading on eggshells but half term is coming up so we can all breathe, as usual, DH lets it all sail over his head except to tell ME off for shouting etc but he does his share if I insist! Thanks for your thoughts.

I can't remember if you said your DD was the HT of a primary school or a comp. Is she a new HT? I know that some schools have a partnership with each other and a more experienced head can act a mentor to the other. I wonder if she has an effective management team to whom responsibilities can be delegated. The most effective heads I knew as a governor had the chain of command well worked out. My DiL is deputy HT in a big comp and shares a lot of responsibility though the buck stops with her boss. I am sure your DD will succeed in accomplishing these aims but it takes time and cooperation from her staff.
Your DGD has had to get used to sharing her mum with a demanding job and deep down must feel insecure. Hopefully half term will enable them to have more mum and daughter time together,

Shouting doesn't work - children will just learn to shout back. Then if you say 'don't shout' they will wonder why not.
Shouting STOP if they are running towards the road works best if they are not normally shouted at!

She should be told firmly that 'No, it is not kind to hurt the dog'

Definitely no hurting the dog. But with things like door slamming I would just say quietly "Please try to be a bit quieter" It does seem to get through in the end

It's when the glass falls out of the door that you realise you slammed it a bit too hard
Teenage me, DP not pleased!

I've go no advice really but I do get where your coming from. I'm in a similar position but for different reasons. I adore my grandchildren but they exhaust me. This is not how I planned being a grandparent. I feel I should be full of fun and adventure but instead I'm having to take over some of the 'parenting role' and responsibilities that go with it. I feel guilty that I feel like this. I just want to enjoy them but unfortunately I'm so knackered I can't. To top it all it causes my husband and myself to be a bit snappy with each other. I'm too old for raising children, I'm too old for the responsibility and I'm definitely too old for the physical effort it takes.

First of all let me say that my d-i-l is a department head in a huge comp so I know a bit about the awful stresses teachers are under. But, no one forced your dtr to take this post. She has done so knowing full well the pressure that would put on her, and so on you too, and apparently not considering the impact on her dtr who must miss her badly. In an ideal world we women would be able to do it all but in reality, clambering up the career ladder while expecting others to pick up the domestic and emotional fall out caused by a stressful job and long hours is selfish. I understand why you feed your g'dtr, but why on earth are you cooking for your DD? Why are you cleaning, washing and ironing for her? She is an adult! She will never, ever get to grips with reality, or appreciate you or her daughter, if you continue to prop her up like this. How would she cope if you were ill? Time for her to sort her life out!
I suspect your g'dtr doesn't hate staying with you, but simply wants to be with her mum. She will be picking up on all this stress too, and is reacting in the only way she can, by attention- seeking bad behaviour. For her sake, make your own life easier by doing less of your daughter's domestic work and concentrating on making your time with your g'dtr fun, just playing with her, trying not to scold, smiling a lot.
Aim for simply enjoying her and worrying less. Good luck.

Thanks for all your thoughts and advice. Yes, it's true that it makes us get snappy with each other, morethan2, and we are knackered.

Its lovely just to know you all mostly sympathise, understand and feel empathy for this situation but, in some ways I wish I hadn't posted. As others have said, it takes guts to post a real heartfelt problem and it's hard to swallow criticism obviously but I will take it all on board and do my best to make this little girl happier.

mazza the start of a solution to any problem is admitting you have one. You have been incredibly brave posting as you did. Don't take the comments to heart it is much easier to offer advice than it is to actually tackle something. You have an awful lot on your plate. I have my GS one day a week and it knackers me. I don't think I could do half as much as you do. Your DD and your GD are so lucky to have you. I am sure your GD will grow out of this and will become happier and more settled. I am sure she loves you tremendously and you are a rock for your family. Just try to get some time for yourself, you so deserve it.

I would say do what you can, make sure your DGD is happy, but don't get taken for granted by your DD.
As Casawan said, she didn't have to take this job, presumably it is a step up the career ladder, but sometimes we have to think carefully about what impact it will have on our families, especially children.

I am sure your DD will settle into her new job, her new home and get a better domestic routine sorted out. And if your DGD goes to breakfast club a couple of mornings a week and you have her the other three days then you can begin to look forward to the time you do spend with her - relax and enjoy her, don't try too hard with her and she may become more relaxed and less naughty!

mazza245 I used to do a lot of what you do for my DD. We still have her boys during school holidays. Yes, it is exhausting having the responsibility for children at our age. Our DD has now got herself a cleaner who also does laundry and ironing. This has made a huge difference to her and my stress levels, and she uses the wrap around childcare offered by the school which has made life much easier. Could you encourage your DD to pay for these to relieve the pressure on both of you? A head teacher's pay should be sufficient for this. Then you and she have more time to give to doing fun things with your DGD.

I think it rather depends where you live. In some areas even a headteacher's pay doesn't cover a great deal.

I am the child of a Headteacher and was horrible at home. When I became Head myself our own child turned into a monster too. I'm not saying this necessarily comes with the job mazza, but it is very common.
Even on a 6 figure salaryJudthepud and throwing lots of money at the problem I began to realise that wasn't the answer, as the issues lie in the dynamics of the relationships within the family. The little girl experiences authority all day at school, her DM is an authoritarian figure too, so the best thing for her GM to do is to lighten up a bit and let the child be as naughty and wilful as the next one! It's a case of just wanting to feel "normal."
As for DD, she will be very stressed in her new job because she feels everyone is demanding of her. The best thing is for her to establish a routine and not worry too much about the child's behaviour for a while. GM can help by not mentioning any of the bad points in the child. Things do fall into place eventually.

This is simply not acceptable. Your poor granddaughter hardly sees her mother during the week. No wonder she's a handful. And she's missing out on all those after school activities children her age usually have, such as swimming, friends coming over, etc. unless you provide them. And you, it seems, are the focus of her angst. That's sad for you.

Your daughter has bitten off more than she can chew. She ought not to have accepted this headship. I'm all for women advancing their careers as much as the next person, but this was a step too far.

If she's on a Heateachers (we don't call them Headmisteresses or Headmasters theses days BTW) salary then she can afford to pay for childcare before and after school. There is a whole industry out there catering for families who work.

Re your immediate problem with your granddaughter's behaviour. I'm sure you understand how she must feel so cut her some slack and just be granny....the one with cuddles, and laughs. I've one feisty grandchild. She responds best when she's kept fully occupied and if all else fails there's the iPad or a DVD ...her 'reward' for being 'good'.

Incidentally I find it best to praise 'good' behaviour rather than focus on the 'bad'.

Others have said the same. Give it a try and see if your daughter can make other childcare arrangements at least a couple of days a week.

to cheer you up.