Should we live selfish lives

I couldn't leave my family in the lurch , just couldn't. But I'd so like to live in the sun too. I f I could afford it I'd have 1-2 months abroad every winter after putting respite care in place if needed, compromise.

We don't know the full circumstances of people's lives so it's difficult to offer advice. I think mags has it right, there must be some sort of compromise where we can have a life of our own and still care for family if needed.
The way things are at the moment with Social care and the NHS makes it difficult to get help though.

I don't like to pass judgement on others. The only thing I can say is this: Were in the same situation, any arrangement that would involve leaving two of the most important people in my life when they need me the most, wouldn't work for me!

Crazygrandma2, Mrs Thatcher's quotation runs as follows:

"And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

To take the 'society' part alone is to decontextualise the quotation and make it virtually meaningless, certainly to make it appear heartless when it is anything but that. Mrs Thatcher was reminding people of reality and responsibility.

If you read the mine of sense and compassion which runs through the Gransnet threads family, sense, reality and empathy are their essence. There can be no help for others without sense and practicality and we cannot shelve our own burdens onto the state and expect a magic wand to be waved.

Should we live selfish lives? - No. That would make us less than human.

Phew, what a difficult situation. It reminds me of what I saw happening when tuition fees came in and children of friends were going to university.

Some put themselves over a barrel to pay accommodation and whatever else they could; some said they can just get loans which they don't have to pay back yet etc and didn't contribute at all; at least two couples we knew said 'that's it, they're adults now', didn't contribute, sold up and moved away/downsized to houses which were too small and far away for the kids to return to even if they wanted.

I don't think we can judge others and as you say, Christinefrance, we never exactly know other people's circumstances. I admire your friend and I suspect she's right to do what will make her happy. Presumably there can be long distance support she can offer (phone, skype etc) and she can offer respite care by taking the children, mother or even the whole family for periods of time. Maybe she can come back for periods of time to support? Maybe even have the elderly mother to live with her?

You probably know the answer to these questions because you'll know more about the exact situation. We're more able to help in life where our own needs are being met. If it's a really big dream for your friend, she's better off following it through because none of us know what is around the corner. Presumably she'll talk it through with the family and establish that she isn't running away and that she will be there for them as much as possible?

Let us know what she decides!

I think we should all do what's right for us. As I get older, I'm finding I don't want to 'be there' for people as much as I have done in the past.

The family dynamics have changed over the years, and will continue to do so.

I have an adult disabled son, and he is the exception; I need to 'be there' for him as he will never be independent. I'm afraid everyone else in the family must take a back seat, and that includes an elderly mother.

There's only so much a person can do without causing damage to him/herself at an earlier stage in life than perhaps ordinarily so.

Would I move away? I've thought about it many times just to get away from the demands of family (except my son, of course), but my experience is not as severe as your friend's and I would probably feel guilty about it. That's my personality I suppose and as I said at the start, we must follow a path that suits us as individuals. We have a right to be individual and live our life as we see fit.

If you have sufficient equity in your UK home have you considered releasing it and buying a holiday flat abroad (might be a good idea anyway if European countries change their minds on the owning of property by non resident British ex pats after Brexit) ...then you can see if you would like to live there long term, and will not be #abandoning# your family.

In our case, my own daughter says she would not look after me if I live to get old (well, I am old now so I suppose she means older !) ....and that was when I was about 50 ! she says she has her own life ...and never used to come to see me once she left home and I have no contact with her now ...my husband has two daughters, one who refused to help her late mother when she was dying of cancer, and another who says she has her own life ......she phones twice a year (and not since last July) We tried calling on her birthday and at Christmas but there was no reply ...and she did not respond to an e mail ! She may well have gone on her travels...hey ho !

SO ..no we don#t feel guilty at all .....we have no friends as my husband has onset vasculare dementia and they have all deserted us (well, some have moved and some died and some returned to the UK) ...so we have no idea what will happen to us when we can no long cope .......hopefully we will both be long gone before that situation arises ! Meanwhile, we will eat drink and be merry ......

It's a difficult one without knowing all the facts . Personally I couldn't do it I would miss my family too much .i would like to live in the sun but only if they were there as well if mine wanted to go I would encourage them to do what was best for them and weep quietly .

Morethan2 - the penny simply hasn't dropped with your friend that you wouldn't be happy if you 'martyred' yourself and wasn't around to support your family.
I'm sure she feels guilty but who knows what dramas she's been through over the years.

All I know is I couldn't walk away. Thank God I don't have that predicament.

Janeainsworth. I totally agree with you. My thoughts entirely. I couldn't move away from my family for whatever reason. I'd miss them too much and I'd feel like I was abandoning them.

There are so many factors involved, really. I have looked after my mum, and will look after my daughter too, as she is seriously ill. I will take on my grandkids as well, when the time comes
I'm not an angel though, I do sometimes think "well what about me?"
It is what it is though.

Just re-read my post! Came out wrong but hope you understood what I meant!
That you're happy to 'martyr' yourself (as your friend described it) but would be unhappy if you deserted your family when they need you.

I have moved to be nearer my DD after being Widowed, she has my DGS & another DGC due in May. My DD's OH is Disabled & they need my help from time to time as I have needed their help since I moved. I love being where I am, lovely area & made lots of friends since moving 2 years ago. Best of both worlds, 10 miles between us & I will probably need more help as I get older.

My DM is nearly 87 & lives 300 miles away, she is still independent but has now had to give up driving, she has always lived in the same village & has good friends & neighbours, I couldn't have moved back there & been so far away from DD & her Family.

I do try to visit DM twice a year & my DD & Family try to go in the Summer. It's a difficult decision but I have lived over 200 miles away from DM since my DD was 9 years old (she's 36 now). If DM should need care we will "fight tooth & nail" to get her moved down here.

Oh it isn't a dilemma for her she's going. I suppose if somthing untoward happens before then she might change her mind. It's a dream she and her partner have held for a long time. I've been thinking about it a lot for different reasons. Perhaps it's because although not 'old' I realise that if there are things we want to do we should do them now because who knows how long our health will hold out. I've got asthma and it's got much worse so I can't do as much physical stuff as I could just five years ago. Some of my older relatives have either died or become really infirm and that has made me think the same. My sick DiL is being encouraged by us all to have lots of treats between treatments to live for the day and who can blame her although I'm not sure were the money is coming from but she has so much to pack into her and her families life. Shes making lots of lovely memories for the children. So perhaps being a bit selfish is good for us. Maybe I'm having a very late mid life crisis

We could never abandon children, even if they are adults, but said children can, do, and will leave us.That is natural.

I would hope, however, that if either I or my DH were in need, what is natural also kicks in, and they would help and make arrangements, wherever they may be.

I have always been of the opinion that " to whom much is given, much is required". My OH is nearly 80 and I am 73 but we are fit and well and have downsized to the same apartment complex that my Mum (94) lives in to assist her to stay in her own home as she becomes increasingly frail. We also regularly help out with grandchildren when possible. These things have their own reward I find. Who wants to sit on a beach all day and turn to leather anyway.

So many lovely posts , it restores my faith in humanity which has been severely battered of late . Most of us seem to care and want to support the more vulnerable members of our families .

People who put their own needs first are selfish. As with all things in life you only get out what you put in, the more you give the more you get back. One day this woman will wake up lonely and unfulfilled because the demands of her family were of little importance to her.

Agree with most of the comments: we had a second home in Spain for over 13 years, initially used as a holiday home but then 5 years living between the two homes. We sold up and returned permanently to the UK when GCS were born. We had fab times in the sun and all expats friends thought we were mad to return to cold uk. However 5 years later our return was right for so many reasons. And what I do see is many singletons trapped as their holiday dreams became nightmares: partners dead, seriously ill or divorced, house prices crashed and their own families left in the UK have now become totally self sufficient and no longer have mum/dad time. That's my personal experience but my family was always was my first priority. However not everyone is the same and I respect their decisions. Just beware.....

Morethan2 I think if you left and went to sunnier climes to please yourself you wouldn't be happy at all - you would be fretting and anxious.

Perhaps your friend is hoping that her mother will visit for long periods and that her daughter will cope and will visit also.

I am someone who moved abroad but we took my 91 year old mother with us. She died 2 years ago aged nearly 98. But what I did do was leave my then 18 year old adopted son in England. He has an inherited illness and things havent been easy for him but now he is finally settled. He has no concept of the value of money so I manage it for him and buy his food online so it is delivered to him and make sure his rent and bills are paid. I have lived with the guilt of leaving him for the last 8 years but my husband who was the prime mover about us moving abroad feels that I would have been worn out with all the demands from the family. One DD whose DHs parents (separated) both lived abroad said to my DS. "The cheek of parents. They move abroad and expect us to use our holidays to go and see them". Most people I know have DCs who think it's great that they can have cheap holidays with their parents. Another DD said she admired how I looked after my Mum but she could never look after me. But after looking after my Mum for 11 years I don't want any of my children to be tied down like that and if I need to be looked after I will go into a home. After over 50 years of being a carer I can finally do as I want. Some people might think that is selfish but most of my grandchildren are grown up so I am not needed now.

Ah yes, without any intention to offend, if someone deserts an ailing relative or two, the taxpayer has to pick up the tab.

Help and support for say an elderly mother would need an adult relative to help, coordinate, liaise with social services and dare one say it - provide family love for a very vulnerable person at the end of their life. It will add to the social workers load if there is no family available - and the mother wont be cared for so well.

With mental health issues, with no relatives to provide support, even just making sure daily that they are ok (I cared for a relative with severe and enduring mental health issues for 9 years) take them out for a walk, shopping, make sure their home is ok, make sure meds are ok - if this isn't done the person is more likely to end up neglected and cost the rest of us in failed community living.

Why would anyone not care for at least one relative - and provide love, set an example to the younger generation over what is kind, what is moral - and not leave it to the already stretched state to pick things up?

I suppose the key statement is 'Do what makes you happy'
I could not be happy, even in the most idyllic setting, if I knew my daughter and mother were ill and I could not easily offer some help and support.

I do not believe in becoming a martyr /doormat but neither do I believe that I should ignore familial responsibilities, I love my family so do not find it a burden to help them!

I could not laze around in the sun knowing that a member of my close family was in need, especially a child.

One of the reasons that we did not make our planned move to France was that our children started to reproduce and our parents started to fail. And I knew that we would lose a precious link with our children - why should they always want to holiday in France, even it if was free? How glad we were when my OH was diagnosed with PD and the boot was on the other foot - we value the input and support of our family, whilst also being able to return the compliment with the child care we do. It is called being part of the human family.