Ask a DIL...

OMG! Gummybear what an awful childhood you had [I know I've already said that] Nowadays I think you would have been taken into care, but who knows how that would have panned out! GB you have clearly turned into a very lovely adult, I'm sure you're a lovely mum and I'm sure you did make a big difference to the children you helped in your child protection work.

GB It's no surprise you slip back to your childhood on these threads, the terrible things you suffered would stay with you, and good therapy to unload a bit on here, so don't apologise, we are all here for you, to help a little if we can. xx

I have a younger sibling. I volunteered for his beatings. I tried my best to protect him. I didn't know what else to do. I tried to tell once and they tried to put me into care but social work was different then and they didn't take me. Extended family (grandparents etc) knew but did nothing.

In adulthood I worked in child protection to try to help other kids like me. I hope I helped.

Father "had to go to work". Usually as far away from us as he could manage. It is hard not to resent that, but whats done is done.

Sometimes I went to hospital with "accidents", mostly I didn't. I was kept off school with the most suspicious ones - bruising round the throat etc. I have a bad hip, a bad knee, a back injury, a trick elbow, a bad wrist and a couple of broken ribs that have healed squinty. There are some scars from burns, cigarette burns etc.

I thank God each day for my own little ones and try my hardest to be the best mum I can to them.

I'm sorry for driving the thread off topic

Oh dear Gummybear I'm so sorry for your awful childhood. I have to ask; why did your dad not protect you & did you have to go to hospital or doctors with these injuries? I thought of you last night, I don't know how a mother could do such awful things to her little girl! You would have been better off being adopted by a loving family that couldn't have their own. Do you have siblings and if so, were they safe from your mother?

It's lovely that you now have a lovely family of your own and I hope you have managed to put this nightmare behind you, somehow. God Bless

No yoga, family heritage since the dawn of time is all from about a fifty mile radius of here, no African or other influences. FGM wasn't a well known issue when I was young, she just flipped out one day and went after me. I'm afraid its not the only lingering injury she has left me with.

My heart goes out to you Gummybear, your mother should have been in a mental home, far away from being able to hurt her little girl. I know in Africa they still practice this terrible mutilation on young girls, is this where your mother's from? How on earth did you survive your childhood?

Yogagirl, absolutely nothing has ever happened to her, not even actual medical help, she is mad as a box of frogs to this day and my father and I try our best to care for her as no one else can stand her and she rarely leaves the house alone.

I had to explain the injuries she left me with during my first pregnancy to the midwives as they of course noticed them. I have very rarely felt such terrible shame.

I feel I can't leave my dad to struggle with her alone given how violent she can be, but she is a very difficult presence in my life. Most days she phones me to shout abuse at me amd I have to try and determine if there is a genuine request for help amidst the insults.

I used to think if I only could be a "good enough" daughter her abuse would cease, but therapists have set me right on that notion over my young adulthood and I now accept I was not to blame for how she treated me.

Washerwoman, these are my feelings exactly. Its one thing to see a relative for an hour and eat cake with everyone watching, but some people it is not possible to trust.

I of course know the overwhelming majority of grandparents are decent caring people. My dad is a lovely man and although MIL hates me, I know she loves my children and would never harm them.

Having finally been blessed after many empty years with a family of my own, I struggle to understand the impulses mum felt to harm me and I suppose my attitude has hardened towards her as a result.

So sorry Gummybear, I don't know how I managed to miss your post initially, that's truly terrible.I hope life has treated you kindly since.My DDs partner is very reticent about his past but from the bits he's said - whacked with a belt by stepdad,and as a teenager had to sleep on a camp bed in the garage for several weeks after a disagreement I'm not surprised our DD carefully monitors how much contact and where with her little one.And it's the marked contrast with how MIL and stepdad has treated the other son that basically means she doesn't trust them.

OMG! Gummybear I hope your mother served time in prison for what she did to you! Do you still see her & are you recovered, did you spend your childhood with your mother or were you rescued?

Yorkshire.I does concern my daughter and she's never really relaxed about DGC going to MILs.She has told me DGC is never staying the night.
SIL is a lovely lad, but not a great communicator.They have had heated discussions about it when our DD has got upset.He says he can see her point,but that's his mum .She's a bit odd.His words.He has apparently opened up about how it annoys him that his half brother has been so mollycuddled. His own dad walked out when he and his sister were very little,and he will get defensive about his mum saying she had a tough time then.But for 20 years she's been remarried and everything has revolved round her new husband and their son.So SIL and his sister have had a really tough time I feel.All very complex!
He's absolutely thrilled to be a dad,and wants to be a good one.DD tries to temper her annoyance with his mum for his sake,but is quite a strong person and any more worrying behaviour she would speak up.
Luckily we live very near,and have another DD who is a very hands on aunty who can help out as they both work shifts and need a fair bit of help.

Very odd, and also worrying. What does SIL think of it all? His Mother seems to be showing signs of being ill to me. We all suffer, well most of us do, when our children leave home to strike out on their own, but this is a bit strange. Your daughter's child is not a substitute for MIL's younger son and if it was my child I would think twice about leaving it with this woman. It reminds you of those people who steal babies because they cannot conceive. Does she need help?

With sleepsuit I meant !

It is strange isn't it Yorkshire.And yes DD does think MIL is trying to replicate her younger son in some way.She only found out recently she was collecting DGC and instead of bringing her home in her coat was using a knitted cape thing that was her sons when he was a baby.And bringing his old hooded bath towel to use rather than the perfectly clean one left out with sleeps it etc.I only mention DDs experience to illustrate that DILs also have to bite their tongue sometimes. And having to accommodate some frankly controlling behaviour irks more when MIL is so patently interested in the baby only.

My advice is to stop trying so hard. The GC will soon know who is genuine and who is not. A bit strange that MIL would dress child in other clothes and take photographs. Is she trying to replace her younger son perhaps? It is a wrench when they go off to Uni. I am just about to experience that again (done it 3 times already with my own) with oldest GC. I hope he will keep in touch as we have always been close since he was born. Just do what you can. Don't pass judgement. Be friendly. That is all you can do. At least SIL is getting love from you anyway.

Absolutely.
Everyone's situation is different.

Some people are just rubbish and nothing is good enough.

For some it would be "good enough to provide free childcare and a bank with no interest but not good enough to bother with for anything else!!"

I'm desperate to know what inappropriate words MIL's teach their GC!!

To start with I was in a very similar situation as your DD washerwoman.

Good enough to birth her grandchild but not good enough to be family.

I confess I haven't had time to read every response.But DIL123s early comment about a MIL who has made little effort ,or had little involvement until the baby comes along really resonates with my DDS experience with her partner's mum.For several years they,as a couple ,were lucky if she even got back to them if they phoned .Rarely invited for a meal.DDs partner virtually lived with our family on and off when home on leave from the forces, before they had their own house, as there' wasn't room for him', despite a large house. His mum has been totally focused on her younger son from her 2nd marriage, whom she has smothered,and DDs partner has barely been acknowledged .Now obviously I don't know the full history of their relationship from way back when.
But still when our DD had the baby I have stressed that even though she and I are close,and live nearby,to not leave the other grandma out.It's her grandchild too.And our DD has really tried,and is still trying for her DHs sake as much as anything,because she knows deep down he's still seeking love and approval ,and a relationship his mum.
But it galls her that MIL has turned up unannounced at inappropriate when she's settling the little one.Seems to think her son should ferry DGC up to be played with at her house at a time that's ideal for her,not when they genuinely need help.Has a secret stash of fussy hand knitted clothes she changes DGC into when she's left with her for a few hours.Then takes loads of photos of her dressed in them.Ignores meals left when weaning,and feeds what she feels appropriate-the same cereal, spoon fed -even though DGC feeds indepently now.
In short DD said the other day 'she doesn't give too hoots about me mum,or even her own son,she just wants access to DGC .I bite my tongue and stay out of it.Mainly because the other grandma does one nursery pick up a week that I can't do.And again I still believe just because it's our daughters child,it's her partners too.I've just urged DD to take a deep breath,and as long as she feels DGC is safe not pick battles over things.In the grand scheme of things it a few hours here and there other grandma is in charge.But I know she doesn't always find it easy,and that's justified IMO.What worries her the most is that the timing of their baby coincides MILs younger son leaving for university and her having a void to fill.
It's made me realise how lucky I was with my own DMIL. Lovely kind,helpful but not at all interfering -and was very welcoming from day one of my relationship with her son.Not my DDs experience sadly.

I disagree. No two people are the same and as such people can not be treated 'the same'.

Personalities, circumstances, relationships prior to the birth of the child all come into play.

One thing I've seen a lot of. Ew parents talk about with frustration is the tit for tat expectation. 'Well they've had a sleepover so we have to have one'
This is their child. Not a time share. There is no 'fair' there are parents who make decisions for what they believe is right and what fits in with their lives the best.
Many people do not believe in the whole 'it takes a village' anymore and value their independence in raising their own family.

Leticia, this is so dead on! I so wish dil’s could understand this.

As the saying goes it takes a village to raise a child. I had a great relationship with both sets of grandparents. I sometimes think that new Mothers in this era have a lot of pressure trying to be everything wife mother and career. However having perfection doesn’t work. This is where grandparents are a great back up unfortunately MIL are always seen as the enemy. Particularly if they are close or we’re close to their sons. I think sometimes it’s a type of jealousy with DIL. It’s because they think we are competing. It’s a very immature way at looking at MIL as we are here to help because most of us are retired. We adore our grandchildren.. All very sad really but I think that new Mothers need to let go.. as I said before it takes a village to raise a child.

gummybears re engagment in a relationship, your case it was your MIL who did not wish to engage. In other cases it may be the DIL who does not wish to engage. Anyone who has not experienced that would find it hard to understand and in my experience always assumes that something must have happened, been said or done that caused the non engagement. That is not always the case.
For you, in terms of grandparents to your children, your experiences and their behaviour are not normal and I cant imagine anyone on thus site would expect you to involve your children with them

Tragic that you had to go through all of that and I really feel for you gummybears, but please do not tar all grandparents with what these people were like. Our grandchildren are loved by all the different grandparents and what you describe is not normal, most grandparents can be trusted with children.

Madgran, I posted elsewhere that this is my trouble with my own MIL, she has never wanted me to do anything but drop off the face of the earth since I was barely out of high school. There is a point at which one walks away from a relationship that is never going to happen. I don't feel at all bad about this; I tried for more than half my life.

As for the other grievances raised in the thread, it is important to remember that every family situation is different. Sometimes there have been incidents in a family's history that entirely merit certain limits being placed on interaction with the children of the family for the children's safety.

I have never permitted, and do not think I could ever permit, either set of grandparents to change or bathe my children. My own mother routinely washed me in scalding water and domestos bleach, held me under the bath water, scrubbed me with a floor scrubbing brush until I bled, forcibly inserted foreign objects into my rectum, and when I was three attempted to perform female genital mutilation on me with a pair of scissors. As for my father in law, he was asked to stop his significant volunteering involvement at the local school after a string of complaints from young female pupils about him touching them in inappropriate ways and having very inappropriate discussions with them.

I do not think anyone would expect me to entrust my toddlers to these people for unsupervised contact, let alone overnights and intimate personal care.

Are there other family members who in the fullness of time I would have no problem babysitting my children overnight? Absolutely. But not those two.

Sometimes being a grandparent is not enough. You also have to be a safe and decent person.

The problem is, if one party does not wish to engage in building a relationship, from the start, then that "solution" is a non starter!