Estrangement - a living bereavement

Once again, my heart goes out to all those here dealing with difficult family situations or the pain of estrangement.

Apt123, I can see your example leading to the decision not to let granny childmind anymore, but don't see it leading to a complete co. Maybe if granny keeps badgering ds and dil (or dd and sil) to let her chilcmind or their are some huge and nasty arguments over it. But not the rule-breaking itself - that can be resolved by simply saying, "no more babysitting."

Just catching up with this thread, so posting as I go along...

Skippy, ds sounds unreasonable. Was he always jealous of dd? Was there a lot of sibling rivalry between them as kids? This may be an extension of that.

How does he expect you to "make an effort to see your grandson" if he and dil "aren't ready to see you?" Is he old enough that they would send him out to you (so you could take him to your house or whatever) while they remained indoors? Or so they could drop him off and pick him up at your house from a distance? Do they know a 3rd part who would bring him back and forth?

I would give them some space for now, but ask them what they have in mind concerning gs. If they don't have an answer, that's on them, imo.

(((Hugs)))

Thanks Yogagirl it really does help me to know that I am not alone and that you, and others are experiencing very similar feelings. Receiving the photo knocked me down but I've been out in the sunshine today and feel a whole lot better. xxxxxx

You're both welcome. Again, I have a secret support group if you want to join us. It's a facebook group so you need to be on FB. We're all friends and we chat about all kinds of things which is nice. Just PM me if you want more details.

Books - I'm a writer. I wrote a book 3 years ago and it's on sale all over the world now. I had to wait until I'd recovered from a particular betrayal before I wrote it, otherwise it would have been very emotional. I now run a business and write crime fiction, which I love.
But going back to reading books, sometimes I think it's better to read something else that helps to pick us up rather than dwelling on the main issue. The books I've read are pretty sad accounts and when I've finished I've ended up feeling worse than ever.
So these days, I purposely make the effort to keep my reading light, educational and a breath of fresh air.
I also read history and when you read about how some families lost all their sons in wars, well, It kind of makes you see things through a different lens.
Friends are invaluable so having good friends, places to go and things that just pull you up, all work to beat the low feelings.
I truly know how you feel. I could shake my daughter, I really could. But this wouldn't solve anything.
Just keep thinking your highest thoughts and keep putting one foot in front of the other. It does get easier. x

So very sorry Jam I had same thing, my neighbours D knocked on my door one day, very excited that she had found and printed out a picture of my beloved GC. I thanked her, but as soon as she left, I put the pic in a draw, couldn't bare to look at it. I have since put it in a lovely silver frame, but hidden it behind a small palm type plant in my dinning room, so it's there but not under my nose. I too read tons of books to try and help me cope with this situation, but then got sick of them!

Thanks for that story about the GD Nina and I would think that that would be the reaction of our GC, especially my GD, beings as she is now only with stepfamily that don't love her, I hope they are fond of her, but in no way do they love her like I, and they rest of her maternal family do, and for her stepfamily to cut her off totally from all contact with her real family that love her so and she us, shows they don't care about her

Alatsea & Jam & Nina and of course the other dear mums on here

allatsea you have just touched my soul by what you have written. You are definitely not alone and now I am not either; this means so much to me - thank you. xxxxxx

Thanks nina1959 it really does help to know that I am not alone and it fires me up to do something about it. I am powerless to get my son to talk - I've tried many times. I write about relationships for a magazine - I am a counsellor by trade. You hit the nail on the head when you said there aren't many books on the subject which is what I have also discovered. This has led me to thinking about writing one myself - don't want it to be a rant as you say by a grief stricken author but a really helpful guide through what is a very difficult and painful experience. I think it would be good for me to focus my energies and I feel that it would also be cathartic. I will also learn a lot along the way and I hope grow as a person. Like I say I don't want to be bitter but to get better. Thanks again for responding to my cry for help. xxxxxxxxxx

Its so hard Jam 56 and I understand your feelings. I had a similar experience today. I am trying hard to make my way without thinking about a huge hole in my life. Today it was a long walk in the sun. You are not alone and now I know that I am not either x

Sorry Jam56, they think they're helping when they send you photos but sometimes it just rubs salt in the wound.
I don't think there are many books on the subject, it's a fairly new but huge issue. What books there are tend to be rant books written by grief stricken authors. I find getting out of the house helps. Walking in a busy place and staying connected to friendly people makes a difference.
You're definitely not alone. x

So, just when I'm starting to feel better wham...my inner rage and pain comes to the fore. Why? well, my well-meaning niece sends me a photo of the grandson I haven't yet met that she was privy to on FB (she hasn't been deleted by my Dil). Oh the sad irony of it - my niece lives 4 thousand miles away and I am 4 miles up the road from my DS and his family. I find it so hard not to feel bitter but at the moment I'm fighting a losing battle. I read books like The Power of Now and similar self-help material but I can't seem to hang on to this positivity for long. I am crying as I type this but knowing that I will be understood and empathised with really, really helps. Just needed to express my feelings. I could scream!! Thank you for listening as I know you will. xxxxxx

Thank you Womble54.......didn't know about this petition and have just signed it X

Yogagirl, I agree. It's an enduring kind of pain that seems to die down then flare back up again. Bit like arthritis really, a gnawing ache.
I go from feeling philosophical to outright angry but my anger isn't at the estrangement. It's the carrying the grievance forward so that the grandchild can't know anything about us. That's what makes me angry these days.
But I do believe that once the AC get into their 50's, then they're going to reap what they've sown sadly. I see it happen all the time. Grandchildren grow up, trace their grandparents, then they ditch their own parents for lying to them. Or in some cases, just not allowing the grandchildren to know the love of grandparents. I heard about a situation only this week where the grandaughter told me that she'd just found her mothers parents and she was moving in with them.
When I asked her what her mother thought, she said don't know, don't care, I'll never speak to her ever again.

Thanks Nina take it, it was your book suggestion, so thanks for that too, I'm really enjoying it, can really relate to it, although I work full time & am 20yrs younger than the grandma in the book lol. I'm half way through, were granddaughter has just brought round the parrot!

This estrangement is still so very very painful! As I know that even if we were reunited tomorrow, it could never go back to how it was,so I feel that it's gone forever

And Yogagirl, I agree with you about grandchildren and the AC being jealous of the special bond. They want it all to themselves.
I didn't have a lot of sympathy for the spoilt daughter in Leota's Garden. x

Yogagirl, I do know. I'm like you, same issues. I've also read Leota's Garden. Francine Rivers is a very author.

My heart and thoughts go out to all of you x

Completely agree with your post Madgran I too thought apt123 was talking a lot of claptrap!

Skippy be oh so careful, the 'cutting out' has began!

Jam good luck

My poor little GD isn't even with her other GP, but with stepfamily, her bio dad & his family have never been in the picture, he ran when my D got pregnant, that's how she and then my GD came to live with me.

Your right AmMaz, s.i.l in my case

allasea so sorry, have you been estranged long?

It does help to read about other mothers in the same sad boat, although you don't won't anyone else to be there!

nina wise words, if only it was that easy, after 4.5yrs I still cannot move on and forget, my little GD that I had such a special bond with I think of her every single day, we just had this special connection, that her stepdad & his mother were jealous of, so I had to go!

I am reading a wonderful book at the moment, which a poster suggested on another thread, it's about a grandmother in her 80's being reunited with her 18yr granddaughter and they have such a special bond, right from the on set, it's so heart warming, called 'Leota's garden' I see the charaters as me and my beloved GD Laila.

Always here for you.

Just want to say that I am overwhelmed with the support and love you wonderful women have so generously given to me and others on this forum. Even though I know that family estrangement is rife I never expected such an outpouring of such warm feelings when I originally posted a message. You have given me the strength to go ahead with a plan I have in mind that I hope will highlight the plight of grandparents and their powerlessness in obtaining contact with their grandchildren. Bless you all. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Here once again is the link to the national petition: -

“Support the right of children to have an ongoing relationship with grandparents”

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/188381

Sorry to keep going on about this, but we need every signature we can get!

It is a balancing act. We have 2 gorgeous grandsons born 3 weeks apart. What should be a wonderful experience has been anything but. The first few months when we had them altogether we spent our time constantly monitoring if we'd paid more attention to one than the other. We have a closer relationship with my daughter & her husband as they frequently call round , whereas although I text. Call and babysit for our son & dil & we have their baby overnight more often than our daughters son. My son perceives we do more with our other grandson .it all came to a head on mother s day. Our son accused us of leaving them out & that we don't make an effort with their son. We tried to explain that we don't plan things with his sister it's just they come round adhoc.& they'd be involved if they came round or responded to our texts etc.anyway upshot is they stormed out saying you know where we live. I ve askied when they were in so ee can talk thingd through . Response not ready to see you but feel free to make effort to see your grandson. They blame my daughter for being jealous but she like us has tried texting to invite her sil to baby events together but gets little or no response. It's a difficult situation & I'm at a loss as to how to resolve it. I'm not yet estranged from my son but I can see it happening soon.so very upsetting .

ap123 I still find it well nigh impossible to see how the scenario you describe (even repeated!) leads to total estrangement. I have also been both a DIL/Daughter and a Grandmother: experienced versions of irritation/routine/rules breaking/sighs/whatever ....and as a grandmother have worked hard to not inflict that on my son and DIL (mainly successfully...although my DIL is quite hard to understand at times and it is easy to trip up completely inadvertently) and my son will always stand by his partner, which I would expect always ...loyalty is important in partnerships.) But for the scenario you describe, total estrangement shows levels of intolerance that seem impossible to justify frankly!!
I don't think estrangement will ever happen to me or you ...but, my god, no one can be complacent,(I am not suggesting that you are being complacent) reading some of these stories!

Cinnamon, I am just in the process of completing my Will, it breaks my heart to have to cut out my one and only daughter, but now that she has turned to drugs, as well as allowing her new man to gradually cut everyone who cares about her out of her life, I feel that I have no choice, as there is no way that while she is with that man we are going to risk all that we've worked for, getting into his hands, and at present if anything happened to us, doubtless it would all be spent on drugs.

We had been told by someone that you must leave a certain sum to your child to stop them having grounds to overturn your Will, but according to our solicitor this is not so. We will therefore be writing a letter to be held with our Wills to tell her why she will be getting nothing, and everything will go to her children instead. It makes me SO sad to have to do this, but as she obviously couldn't care less about me and my feelings, I don't see why she should benefit when I'm gone.

Sending friendship and understanding to all of you out there who are going through the same thing, and if anyone needs to talk please feel free to PM me at ANY time.

I can't stress enough how it's important to refocus your thoughts on your own lives. It's hard but if you can kickstart your life into a new direction, it will really help you make that vital leap towards sanity.
Join groups, get new hobbies, do new things. You have to start your life over but it's worth it.
Above all, try not to allow your emotions to keep you a slave to what you see as a loss. It's an insult to every decent parent to be simply cut off because we've failed at some imagined hurdle.
It will be their loss one day. But for you now, pick up the threads of your life and start creating a new start for you. x

Not sure where to start but to say thankyou for each post here that I have read today.
I have recently been excommunicated by my DD and with this she includes my darling GD.
My crime? I think it is devoting too much time and energy not to mention money to her and my GC's well being.
I am devastated to think this will continue and I will not have a relationship with GD. DD has involved me in every minutae of her life,loves,problems etc and kids have viewed my home to be home from home. When it has suited DD they have stayed for weekends, holidays etc.
I have found a lot of reassurance that I am not the only mother to be treated like this through rejection, intimidation and threats, using our dear GC as weapons.
So thank you ladies for your support today. It quietly meant a lot to me x