Estrangement - a living bereavement

.....sorry, my previous post got sent prematurely! Should have read that the modern DiL is constantly requiring our sons to 'line up' with them against us.

Flo This estrangement is now exceptable and in fact I think they get a badge of honour from their peers for cutting off their dear mums!

Naina* Thanks for sharing your story {Flowers]

Grannysmith,Stella and all

Cinnamon re wills, only my NiceD & my GC will inherit.

Back to read last posts later...

Jaquette So very sorry you lost your DGS like that
but so pleased you have him back after 20yrs!!

Soulis Such good advise, so wish I had had the wisdom to do just as you did, when I was first 'cut out', 4.5yrs on, all too late now

ap123 you very wisely said "......but when it comes to the grand children I constantly remind myself that I only have them on loan."

True, isn't it? GC are not ours, but a gift in time - freely given by our daughters.

GREAT POST FROM WOBBLE & JOY I will share the link on the support page I'm on. So sorry to hear of the other stories of estrangement. I will read pages 2&3 soon. God Bless all xx

Petition signed. I am very luckily that I am in full contact with all my children/ grandchildren at the moment but my heart goes out to those who aren't so fortunate x

Y'know it's tales of tragic awfulness such as these heartbreaking situations I'm discovering here that are going to make my practice of 'zipping the lip' just a little easier to bear even though it regularly irks me to have to do so. I feel my family and I could surely cope with a slight difference of opinion like proper adults because we do have a robust relationship methinks. However.......reading what has gone on here has me deciding I'm not going to rock any boats. What a mess..........

Precisely, ap123. You've charted exactly what happens, from what I've heard. Great example of a blow up leading to GPs 'mysteriously' CO to their GC.

I read these messages and I sometimes have to shale my head. Try to see things from the other side. Example discussion between your DS and DIL:
DS We've not had any time just the two of us in a while. It would be nice to have a long weekend together, just you and me
DIL I'd love to, I miss that too, but we need a sitter for the baby
DS I can ask my mum
Pause, silence
DIL It's nice of her to take the baby for us but -insert whatever rule you find hard to follow: sleeping times, eating habits, TV watching...- gets her off the track and it's so hard to get her back into her routine
DS I'll talk to mum about that

From there on, depending of whether rules have been broken before or not either your DS informs you of the rules they have for their child or they get into a fight on how those rules are not followed. Either way the smile through gritted teeth will be noticed, trust me on that one.
I have been both the DIL and the grand mother. As a DIL I have given up on asking in laws to child mind for us. They never understood why it was such a big deal that either they could not follow our rules for the children or that they obviously did it under duress (I did make them vegetables as you asked - no need to point that out!) As a grandmother I take the first step and ask if there's something I need to know and because I have been a parent I can still remember what's important so I specifically ask about bed times and TV times and if I plan an activity if that's okay with the parents. It's not always plain sailing and I have had to say no on a few occasions and it has not always gone down well, but when it comes to the grand children I constantly remind myself that I only have them on loan.

I've just seen Cinnamon's post and couldn't agree more, in fact my friend and I have discussed this very point. In her son's case he certainly wom't need the money, as not only does he have a good job but his wife is the only child of fairly wealthy parents. I know it is generally best to treat all one's childten the same except in exceltional circumstances, but this is exceptional. I did suggest she may like to leave what could be considered her son's share direct to her grandson, leaving a covering letter with her Will explaining her reason.

I'm fortunate enough not to be in that situation but one of my dearest friends is. She has two sons and two daughters, and has had no real contact with one of the sons for a long time. They were close many years ago when her husband died but he had virtually cut all contact for some time. She thinks it is probably her dil who doesn't want contact though she has no idea why. She finally decided to write him a letter saying how sad she was and asking if it was anything she had inadvertently done. She even got me to print the address on a label for the envelope. She read me the letter and there was no recrimination in it,, just a simple request for some explanation. His extremely short reply had her in tears. According to him there was nothing she had ever done wrong but he simply didn't want to be involved with the rest of the family though he wishef them well. He and his wife only have one son and luckilly he is in touch with his grandmother via FB, though she keeps it very general, wishing him luck with his exams etc.

Some years ago she asked her son if he could take an interest in his sister's son who hasn't got a father around. His reply was that he couldn't do that because he only had enough love for his own son. It is doubly hard as her other son has emigrated to New Zealand with his family, though they keep in constant touch and all came over last summer. Their eldest boy staying on for several weeks after the rest of the family went back. Needless to say his brother made no attempt to contact them, despite knowing they were over.

I wonder whether all these horrible relatives expect to be cut in when you die. You should leave them out of your Will. You're not obliged to leave everything to the children equally, or include a child who has cut themselves off from you. If one is persistently horrid, or cuts you off from contact, cut them out of your estate. Or if you want, leave the funds to the little grandchild[ren] with an independent trustee so the parents can't embezzle the money.

Joyfully, geographical separation is totally different to estrangement!! A couple of years ago my DIL decided suddenly to cut me off. After looking after my grandson four days a week (taking him to tennis, soccer, swimming, kindy, etc and having him for sleepovers two nights a week) and my granddaughter two days a week, I was allowed no contact. This went on for several months and then with the help of negotiations through my partner and a voice of reason from my son, things improved and I was allowed to see them once a fortnight (not the same but better than being completely cut off). Now they have moved to England (I live in Australia) and I must say that the feeling is totally different. Although I will not be able to visit them because of health issues, I can FaceTime and Skype and I live in the hope that when they are older I can send them a plane ticket to come back and visit. I am sad, but not completely devastated as I was during the estrangement. So no, imagining the kids are simply halfway around the world when you are in fact estranged from them is not useful. And estrangement is far worse than bereavement. My heart goes out to all of you out there who are experiencing estrangement from your grandkids!!! From my experience there is no worse pain and anguish!!!

I have signed the petition. Thanks for the link Womble.

It is a bereavement. In my experience, all of the stages are there, disbelief, bargaining (in our heads at least) feeling misery, loss and anger, followed by resolution. I have been estranged from my adult son for 9 years now. For me the first several years were full of heartbreak. Christmas and Mother's day were the worst and at some point in the afternoon, I invariably ended up in bed in tears. Later, I started to feel angry with him as there was/is no justification for the way he treats me! Now, I am mostly resolved to it. I'm not even sure I could any longer welcome him back into my life without a sincere apology and I don't ever see that happening.

I'm just so sorry for you all in this situation. Like you I could never imagine it happening, but it has to you so it could to me too. I'm so sorry also that many of you have no idea what happened to cause the estrangement. I wish you all the happiness you can get from other relationships and areas of your lives and that one day things will be resolve between you and the people you love.

JAM56, I agree it is a living beareavement. Yes, it is jealousy and control. There is so much of this about and I have posted about this kind of thing before, specifically the DiL being threatened as if her MiL is 'the other woman' and requiring her husband (out sons) to 'll be up'

I am sorry to hear that there are so many Grans in this position - myself included. I have been estranged from my daughter for some years now,it is complicated, but she has made no effort to take the hand of friendship that I have offered her time & time again. We do not see our DGC aged 6 & 3. Mother's Day was a nightmare for me as I lost my old Mum last month. But my DS, who is also estranged from his sister sent me a beautiful bouquet for the first time ever & he is 31!! Just nice to know there are others like me. My mantra is to keep going, make a life & hope that something will change one day. Thanks for listening.

Chimaera The bit about inheritance is strange. Inheritance should be viewed as whatever may be leftover after spending on care. We intend to spend to care and leave little, while spending during our lives - on our DDs now as well. Shame on your DDs bad attitude.

for each and every one of you estranged from adult children and in some cases grand children too. There is a thread on the Relationships thread which has been running for over 4 years now, although it's title has changed a few times over the years; a link to this thread has already been mentioned on here.

Please feel free to join us there. Some great friendships have been formed over the years and we often have a laugh, in spite of the pain estrangement brings.

I've not seen either of my daughters (in their 30's) for 8 years - just after I remarried. They didn't approve - he's younger than me so they will 'have to wait longer for their inheritance' - this from the eldest, to me. The eldest had a 3 year old (I heard through a word acquaintance of SIL) and the youngest has got married - about 3/4 years ago - a friend asked me if she had, and then showed me a wedding photo from Facebook (I am blocked from both their accounts). The youngest has emailed me this week saying she now she is older she appreciates what I did for her before she was old enough to appreciate it - I have no idea what prompted this (perhaps as it was Mothering Sunday?) I just have to grin and bear it - over the years they have both moved house, but not replied to texts or emails. It's hard, but who knows? things may thaw in time. I wish everyone well who is going through similar - it's hard.

From previous threads you all might no of me, as im in the same boat as jam.My eldest son and dil dont have me in there lives at all.My sons cut us out, to keep her happy .As she refused my husband and i in their lives Saying she only wanted her own family, who are given ever available access to grandsons x3 .She never talks with us.And he only ever texts. We currently have access to seeing our older grandsons once a week.A couple of hours after scho ol .But they can, and have taken access away on a whim! To punish me for crimes, i dont even no ive committed.My youngest grandson is 5 mths old, and ive only seen him once for a minute.

For those who didn't see my earlier posting, here's the link to the national online petition - "Support the right of children to have an ongoing relationship with grandparents."

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/188381

Please sign and forward it on. Many thanks.

That must be so hurtful, I feel for you, especially as you don't know why. I'd be tempted to send a recorded delivery letter so you know it got there, saying that you love them all, would dearly like to draw a line under the past, and start again, hoping to be able to build a relationship with the grandchildren . It's such a shame they miss out on a set of grandparents. Then sign it with love, and say it's up to them to contact you when they feel able. Then it's totally up to them! ( I'd even keep a photocopy so grandkids can see it when they are old enough to query what went on. Then try and put it out of your mind as much as you can, u can do no more.