*warning difficult topic* Re my Grandsons care

I am so sorry to hear this sad story. As an outsider though, it just seems to me that under no circumstances should your grandson be placed back with his mother. We hear of cases all the time when social workers are too trusting of the birth parents and make terrible decisions. Your grandson is happy and thriving with you and you are willing to have him. The fact that your daughter's partner is a murderer should put living with your daughter completely out of the question.

Your grandson should also have child in need meetings as LAC reviews are likely only being held every 6 months now aren't they?

It is event from what you are saying someone needs to take a handle on this case in order to avoid drift/delay for your grandson, permanence for him must be a priority now. Could you tell me his age? Your daughters and your own please?

Why was he placed into foster care as opposed to your care in the first instance? (I am a SW so ask a lot of questions sorry)

The reason I asked about the hair testing and whether the case is in Court is for the very reason of WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT?? This is always a bone of contention.

'Maybe having a legal planning meeting' is not good enough, what is their reason for holding one? surely they must be concerned your daughter cannot cut the mustard?!

The SW should speak with mother about giving your grandson false hope and/anxiety until firm future plans are able to be made. Else this talk will have an impact upon his behaviour and emotional wellbeing

How can they contingency plan when they haven't put any plan of action in place thus far?! How long has he been with you?

I do not WISH FAILURE on my daughter at all ... Just want her to be in a position where she can fully care for him well with an appropriate lifestyle!!

I have always WANTED her to have him back , it supposed to be my / our ''happy ending'' but this does NOT feel like my happy ending as I have serious concerns still about how she will parent my Grandson , not serious enough for the courts not to let her have him in her care but serious enough to know my Grandson very likely WILL SUFFER and of course I do not want him to suffer or be damaged at all psychologically or emotionally and because of his Autism it is hard to tell at times what he is going through but it usually shows in his behaviour which is not naughtiness but anxiety / frustration x

IF I felt my daughter was indeed nearly ready to have him back nomatter how sad I felt about him leaving my care I would be CELEBRATING as I get my 'family back to normal' but this feels like a PRETENCE unfortunately..

I don't MIND getting my life back if I can relax and NOT WORRY ABOUT HIM ... I don't MIND socialising again which I have not done for 2 years , taking up holidays , taking it easy at my time of life , looking forward to retirement , travelling , freedom BUT all with a RELAXED frame of mind , not worried sick about my Grandsons welfare and how he is being treated as my daughters issues can make her irritable and she tends to take it out on him!

Personally I feel stopping drinking in itself is not a sure sign her mental health is good

She may have just replaced it with cannabis , if her lifestyle has really changed she would not be associating with an ex who very likely could still have anger issues or be lying to her family to get what she wants

So yes it is good if she has stopped drinking and taking class A drugs and is holding down a job but as a Grandparent who adores my Grandson and is extra concerned because of his disability it is a scary and worrying prospect at this stage to talk about him being returned in 7 months time x

Surely the fact that the man she is seeing was accused of murder should make the social services think twice. Not to mention the drug taking. What are they thinking of?

Hi millymolly , yes LAC reviews are every 6 months but the LAC review officer called me last week saying he is concerned the case is drifting and why have I not got or even started the process of SGO by now?

I told him it is because there has been a change ie my daughter has stopped drinking and wants to go for reunification now , but he is none too happy and wants permanency for my Grandson as he has been in care for nearly 3 years now

My Grandson will be 10 in July , my daughter is 32 and I am 53

He was placed into foster care because I was suffering from burnout after living with my daughter for 5 months and being both my Grandsons carer and hers due to her alcoholism but was trying to keep the family together at the price of my own health

Plus I needed some bereavement counselling after losing my Mother in Law , Brother in Law and baby Granddaughter from my other daughter all in the space of 3 months so I was coping with a lot

They were concerned I was too close with my daughter and would not safeguard my Grandson which was not the case

I got back on my feet and was then assessed for viability and passed then went through the whole assessment process and fostering assessment and passed panel and he was place in my care just under 2 years ago so has been with me for 22 months so far

I have e-mailed my concerns re what my daughter is telling my Grandson and the impact it is having on his emotional well being right now

It seems like they don't even know what the plan is so cannot tell me directly and clearly but I need to know too!!

LAC review is in June so I think it may be a very interesting one lol x

Yorkshiregel and others who mention he's a murderer...yikes. And he murdered the SON of a SOCIAL WORKER? Do the social services people know that?

Ask for a supervisor level meeting. It's so disturbing when you read of children who were harmed because of the 'missed opportunities'... I absolutely hate that term. Why aren't mistakes called mistakes FFS!

to you.

I don't think it's considered a good idea to ask a very young child who he wants to live with as I have read it gives them a scary amount of guilt towards the other person they could have chosen and it's not meant to be good for them. So I'd drop doing that altogether. To reassure you, it's actually considered perfectly normal to smoke cannabis recreationally nowadays, but it would be a good idea to not allow the child to inhale any of the smoke, so when he is living back with his mother, she should really go into the garden or balcony depending what she has and not let him be around her at that time. I know to our generation it looks like a bit wrong for a parent to use drugs but you're never going to keep the child on those grounds so it's best you just go with the flow and make sure things don't get so tense that you can't have him back if things go wrong again. Things like asking the kid where he wants to live are the types of things that could risk the social services deciding they don't want you involved with him any more, so take care to follow their advice on the transition.

Yorkshiregel - I suppose the murderer could be reformed my worry is it could be likely he has anger issues still along with other ones and I also do not want my Grandson being around anyone ''popping out for a spliff'' and coming back wasted!!

It was a ruddy strong spliff coz he himself apologised for being wasted and you could smell it to high heaven in the coridoor lol

Not what I was expecting on a 'normal contact visit' AND surely if she is missing her son so much she would want to spend one to one quality time with him alone?? Not keep having visitors pop round and spending the precious contact time with them / entertaining them?

She had another friend pop round too , but I think she wants to show them ''her son at home with her'' so they get used to the 'fact' that she is getting him back , it may be a fact in the end but I am not impressed so far and my gut is saying something else about this 'recovery'

Yup I refuse to ask him who he wants to live with now and have only ever asked him once and it confirmed his wishes at the time to social services

I still cannot pretend I am a fan of cannabis , have seen what it can do to peoples mental health and I would not promote it

Would much rather she was clean of everything and functioning as well as possible , no one is perfect , but still , she tends to have mood swings and that is not good for little man who has them of his own lol

Lewlew yes it is quite ironic that it was the only son of a social worker

He was not a gang member like his murderer was , he was innocently out doing some shopping but apparently 'looked at the guy in the wrong way' and was KILLED FOR IT

The guy obviously has issues and was deemed dangerous by the judge and was from a 'troubled background' .. how do we KNOW he has worked on all his issues and reformed? Probably not tbh

nannynoohave you had any independent legal advice for example from a family law solicitor who is experienced with child welfare cases? It would be worth looking into if you haven't done so already.

Can't really add anything just hope everything turns out well nannynoo ?

So sorry to hear this, if I was in your position I would be beside myself. You know your daughter and I know addicts are very good at saying what you want to hear and playing the system, seems to me she's got a 2 bedroom flat out of this and I feel she wants to play happy family's at Christmas.But where will it go from there, addicts have to stay away from anyone that dabbles in there addictions and seeing the ex is worse thing she can do. If it was me I would be keeping a very close eye on them if she gets to Christamas clean and making sure social services are in constant contact with them. Yes, we know they are short staffed but we also no some very tragic decisions have been made by them in last 10 years. You sound very clued up and I hope all your efforts are recognised and valued by SS. Please keep us updated.

I think my worry is doubled because little man has limited speech due to his Autism and cannot even tell me if something bad happens to him

Plus he needs special care , he really does and I hope she would really TAKE NOTE of that but still not sure if she would as she is headstrong and does not like to be 'told what to do with her son' but nothing wrong with some Autism training , am going to be having more myself , always open to learning how to BEST SUPPORT my Grandson with his difficulties and get him through them in life as a happy young man

I was on Alcoholic family support groups when we were going through all the throes of her alcoholism , am constantly on Autism groups etc getting support and researching the best way to get my Grandson through his difficulties and understanding what makes him tick ( or distressed etc )

Was on here getting the support I needed when things were tough and I was fighting for my Grandson to be placed in my care but thing is MY DAUGHTER should be on alcohol addiction support groups , she should be the one ringing helplines ( although it does affect family / me of course too ) she should be on Autism groups learning about Autism and how it affects her son but no , she does not need any help or support but that is a worrying thing in itself tbh!!

I'm afraid I can't add any practical or professional advice except to say I take my hat of to you Nannynoo your devotion and love does you credit. I do hope things work out well for you all and as for the boyfriend what a looser. Take care

How awful for you. I agree with PollaidH. I would put all your concerns on writing and send it recoded and signed for to the top
person. You don't say if the ex boyfriend is the father of you DGS? I am assuming not. He shouldn't be near the child, let alone smoking a joint. Ask them how they intend to monitor the safety of you DGS. Your DD is a grown woman but they have a duty of care to your DGS. It sounds like he has been through enough already. I would also keep a daily diary of events. It may be very useful in the future to give your viewpoint credibility if you can back it with dates and times. Log everything, DD, SW, anything. Even what school days or any progress or setbacks. You have so much going on it must be difficult to remember. I hope you get some help and find some peace soon x

My heart goes out to you, too, nannynoo. Sounds as if you have really been there for gs and have been a Godsend for him. It's wonderful to hear how much you've helped him, and I'm sorry you're going through such a hard time right now.

Have to agree with other posters that just because dd hopes/wishes/says that something will happen soon doesn't mean it will. It seems like you have some time.

It's good in a way that she wants her child back and is working towards that. Would you be happier if she didn't care? I don't think so. But she does seem to be "getting ahead of herself," as you say.

If she does get gs back, though, she will then be in charge of him. So I hope you maintain a good relationship with her. Otherwise, I'm afraid she might keep gs from you, which wouldn't be good for him, imo, and, of course, would hurt you, as well. I see that you say he will "always have a back up with" you. Great! But if dd gets angry with you, you might not get to see him while he's living with her. You must let ss know of your concerns, of course, for gs' sake. But please be careful that dd doesn't get the impression that you're against her having him at all.

I will take all the help I can get tbh as there are limited resources out there as it is

Mind you she did ask for help with my Grandson at one point as she was struggling to cope with him and asked social services for help but they said she did not warrant it at the time

I hope we can go forwards and not backwards at all but associating with this ex is a step backwards for a ruddy start

She has the POTENTIAL in her to be a good Mum but her issues cloud it and she has ended up ''on tag'' while her son was in her care for ABH as she had a violent temper especially under the influence of drink , was fined for criminal damage and biting a police officer , has dabbled with cocaine and God only knows what else and got done for drink driving twice and lost her license twice because of it so it was not a pretty picture up till the day my GS was taken into care and for a while before so that is the environment / situation I DON'T want him going back into and it's weird because from 0-5 she was an ok / good Mum and very much a home bird but seems her issues from her past reared their head and she could not cope with it , plus started mixing with the ''wrong sort'' for a while and still obviously does but I am still hoping she can sort out all these issues but preferably BEFORE MY GRANDSON IS RETURNED BUT I FEEL THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ie they will not wait for her to sort out her issues first , just the main issue of drinking

If gs goes back to dd, will ss be in her life for a while? Perhaps they can make sure that she isn't seeing ex "on the sly?"

The fact that you "got tears in your eyes" when you saw the "things in his room" tells me that, even if there were no concerns, you would feel sad at the idea of gs moving out. No wonder after all the time he has been with you and all the time and effort you have put into him. He means a lot to you, of course, and it must be very hard to even think of letting him go. (((Hugs))). But, imo, you need to start preparing yourself to do that. I'm not sure how, I admit... Best wishes to you and him!

Starlady , it is a very fine line as sometimes she says ''you stole my son'' and other times '' I am SO grateful for what you are doing for him'' and she feels guilty as I am meant to be taking it easy

My gut instinct is saying one thing and yet I am not letting her KNOW what my gut is saying or that I have to be entirely honest = THAT I DO NOT TRUST HER! So I do carry on as normal and seem to support him coming home to her as 'ideally' it would be good for everyone

BUT even if we have fallen out before within a week or two she is STRUGGLING TO COPE and practically begging for me to come over so we can do SOME TEAMWORK HERE - I get to keep an eye on my Grandson plus also support her BUT the MAIN thing is that I GET TO KEEP AN EYE ON MY GRANDSON

He needs some positivity in his life and I feel it will be a VERY confusing time for him if he is returned home and he will need A LOT of support with the transition etc xx

Plus I do not want her to get cross with him if he misses me or does keep asking for me as that is perfectly natural for a while x

I'm still ruddy confused as to what is happening anyway but asked the social worker to ring me in the e-mail I sent but not sure why I am even expecting her to do so lol

Any normal person with a heart would realise your grandson needs love and stablility more than anything else. As a foster carer I know social workers can be almost obsessed with reuniting natural parents with their children even when they are not always in a position to properly care for them and give them the emotional stability they need so badly. Keep pushing the safety aspect of your daughters violent boyfriend. What if he was ever left on his own with your grandson? Try to get social workers to take action to ensure he is never left alone with him. If she was forced to choose would she choose her son or new violent boyfriend? Even if they eventually put him back with his Mum insist he has regular contact with you just in case his Mum relapses with the alcohol. Your grandson will be at school during week days but you could try to get visiting rights at weekends if he was ever placed back with your daughter. Good luck to you and grandson.

Starlady yup I am preparing myself as you are right I would feel that grief and loss anyway , it is just HARDER with the WORRY on top of it as other kin carers have been in this same situation and worried every day the child was away from their care ( as they knew they had reason to! )

One lady had her niece returned 4 TIMES , yes 4 times back and forth from her to birth parent and others had the same thing happen till they finally adopted the child for permanency

I DO NOT want my Grandson to go back and forth I want her to make a success of it with my support but I feel I will probably have to lessen my expectations of how I think she 'should' parent him as long as he is not in any great risk but I do want her to stop SHOUTING at him as it really does not help or work and it makes him more distressed , bless him , so perhaps we can work on that

Still got pain and still got concern

Yes social services will be monitoring her for probably a fair while as will the school BUT it is when no one is there I am worried about and him being in utter distress coz she can't cope and ends up yelling at him and being HARSH with him but according to her ''shouting works'' and I am too soft and he needs disciplining , yes , but NOT FOR AUTISTIC BEHAVIOUR and shouting at an already distressed child for showing signs of distress in his behaviour does not HELP AT ALL and it does more damage!!

I go from wanting to fight it , to feeling ''there is nothing I can do about it'' as reunification with parents comes first

So I feel the latter is true and there is nothing I can do about it in the end as it is social services decision , not mine , but personally I would rather keep him here till she REALLY sorts out her issues first but looks like that is not going to happen it seems...

So yes she will see I am ''going along with it'' but also my concern will be keeping an eye on this special little man x

Hi there nannynoo - I am a retired social worker and have some 30 years experience in children's services. This case is indeed drifting and if it gets to court the LA will be chewed up by the judge! It seems to be that you GS is accommodated under S.20 of the Children Act (used to be called voluntary care) so your daughter does have Parental Responsibility for him. S.20 is only meant to be used for short periods certainly NOT 3 years. Judges have been very scathing of LAs using this Section for long periods of time. It's right that the LA will have to have evidence of significant harm if they go to court for a Care Order and my guess would be that they know they have not handled this case in a way that serves the best interests of the child.

I think you should put all of your concerns in writing to the social worker and team manager and the IRO who seems to be on the right track about this case drifting. I am staggered that the LA have left this little boy in limbo for 3 years. Can I ask if they assessed and approved you as a foster carer - are you getting a fostering allowance? If they haven't assessed you and approved you they are outside of the law.

I know you want your daughter to be able to parent her son but you also quite rightly have concerns -I think it is very worrying about the ex who has just been released from custody. That alone presents a risk to the child. Can you make sure that all this is in writing before the next LAC review. I appreciate it will upset your daughter but you're acting in the child's best interests.

Legally the LA don't have sufficient evidence to go to court for a Care Order because the child has been well cared for by you. BUT I think you need to do some hard thinking and decide if you want to apply for an SGO (there's a wealth of information on line about SGOs) If you decide to go down that route you need to give the LA 3 months notice in writing of your intention to apply. Then you don't have to do anything because it is the responsibility of the LA to assess you and make a recommendation as to your suitability (or otherwise) to be granted an SGO. A judge makes the decision - if it's granted the Parental Responsibility transfers to you and your daughter has very little PR. The thing to remember though is that once an SGO is made the LA close the case as they are no longer involved and if there are problems with your daughter and any of her associates then you have to sort it out yourself, but it looks like you are doing that anyway!

Feel free to PM me if you wish.