feeling lonely and isolated as paternal grandmother

May1, You won't like my reply but your son has agreed that his children will follow the religion of his wife's family, not his own. His choice. The family invited you to their child's religious and sporting events and a shared lunch afterwards. That's nice and then you said the grandchild didn't even look at you at the communion event but the day wasn't about you. Did he really not acknowledge you at all during the day ?

You live further away than the rest of the family who can arrange to lift share so, of course, it's only natural that you provide your own transport. From my experience, it's always harder for the grandparents who lives further away to have the same close relationship with grandchildren as those grandparents who live virtually on the doorstep and it takes a lot of effort all round to make it better (that should mainly be down to your son) but if you give presents like a book about belonging to two religions then I'm not surprised that your daughter in law is cross and doesn't invite you to more intimate gatherings. Again, her choice and it seems your son doesn't want to defend you in this matter either so your concerns should be directed at him, not his wife.

You criticise her family for side-lining you but do you ever invite your daughter in law's extended family over to yours to celebrate Jewish traditions or, indeed, any other stuff? I'm not necessarily defending their behaviour but just telling it like it is! It may not be what you hoped would happen for your grandchildren but it is what YOUR son has chosen and you have to accept that. It is the right of the parents to chose a school of their choice too and shouldn't be criticised openly.

My parents sent me to Sunday school but I grew up to be an atheist but I still chose to send my children to a C of E school because it had the best reputation for education and disciple. My children have grown up to be atheists too but are also happy for their children to attend a C of E school for the same reasons and they also attend the local church for the social events it provides. I don't criticise that and I occasionally go too because I like listening to the music of the hymns but I let all the religious mumbo jumbo go over my head.

It seems the daughter in law has agreed that your grandchild come over when you celebrate Hanukkah etc. That's nice too that he is getting some exposure to your (not his father's)choice of religion. So when your grandchild is older he can decide for himself whether he wants to find out more about granny's religion if he wants to or to have no religion himself.

I did live in the USA for a while and work colleagues of my husband invited us over and then suggested we join their church. I knew they only socialised with church friends but I'm afraid that was too high a price to pay for their friendship!

I think all this turmoil boils down to the fact that your grandchild is not being bought up in the Jewish faith and you are disappointed that your son didn't marry a Jewish girl but usually we can't choose our children's partners for them. Do you have any other children yourself or are all your eggs in one basket, so to speak! I'm sorry you are finding things difficult but it just goes to show, in my opinion, that religion can be the source of all ills!!!!

When my daughter invites her mother in law ( who lives some distance away) over, I don't expect to be invited too because, (living closer) I have easy access all the time. Again, that is for your son to say he wants you more in his family's life if his wife is more reluctant to arrange things independently. It always seems it's the daughter in law who gets the blame. When I married we moved away from the area but, as both sets of grandparents lived in the same town, it was easy to fit them both into our lives when we visited. We usually had them to stay for holidays with us individually, but not always, but both had equal access to grandchildren.

Yorshiregel in response to your post, Jewish people do not believe in hell the same when as Christians do. It is more a place to be cleansed, there is no reward or punishment involved.

The'chosen ones' in the Jewish religion, means to be of service to others in kindness and good deeds. It is not meant to mean superiority in any way to other religions.

May1 I really do feel for you. I too am a Jewish grandma,but living in England with my family in the US raising the children with no religion. Except for Catholic grandma turning up in Dec out of the blue and 'demanding' that the children have Santa Claus gifts! I tried to defend the kids choice to overlook it but was interrupted and practically told to shut up as my daughter went to a Jewish Day School so what would we know! I think I will private message you about my situation, but I will just say one thing - Bar Mitzvah! Depending on what area of the country they live in, they may have Jewish friends and see them getting the big party, loads of cash and presents and suddenly have an interest in the Jewish side of the family. It happened to Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones son! (Not that I am casting aspersions!)

Hmm - I went to a catholic school and as a "non-catholic" along with a couple of others we were required to "leave the room" and stand in a corridor while they had their little religious talks. As kids this was humiliating - you must have felt much the same as we did then and much more so because its family. Being excluded is horrid and hurtful. So much for Love Thy Neighbour or grandmother then. You might find when your grandchildren get older they have less enthusiasm for their religion and rebel. Unlikely have any choice at the moment.

Again, I am so sorry. I don't believe Priests should speak against other faiths, particularly Judaism - the root of Christianity. Church bit is difficult, rest is easy fixes and mindset changes.

Norah, they are 8 and 10. So it's been a 10 yr struggle to be part of things. This particular event came together in such a way that I felt obliterated. I need not to take my sense of self worth from this. Once I come up from despair I will look at what I can and can't change.

Notthernlass. That is a good quote. Thank you

This is just awful and I'm so sorry you've had such an upsetting experience. I hope that in time you are able to view this in a different light; may be on the day the children couldn't gauge how to behave around you as, I'm guessing, your uncomfortable feelings were probably obvious. Shame on those (adults) who didn't pick up on this.

In my experience some of the most thoughtless behaviours I've come across have been from those who say they have strong religious beliefs. I am reminded of an article written by Howard Jacobson where he said that "it is not religion that is the root of all evil; it is certainty". I think that certainty, in this context, naturally excludes those who are not in the same 'club'.

Dear May1,
So sorry to hear about that. I would have been very upset too. I think it just shows a lack of thought for other people. Perhaps you could just quietly offer help if they are all so busy and just be there for them. Bide your time continue to show interest in the family and build a good life for yourself. If you are generally feeling low, perhaps you should see your doctor.

How old are the children? I found that as my GC got older they had less free time for us. My older daughters children now have children of their own (yes we are GGPs).

Our much younger daughters have toddlers and young children. Quite different ways.

OOPs Sorry May1, just read all your posts and I see you are in America so a lot of what I said doesn't apply and a very different culture.

I have an English friend who in her 40's moved with he family and settled in America and became and an Elder in her Church in America. I never remember her attending church before except for Baptisms, Weddings, and funerals or expressing many political views. In your last election I was horrified at the postings she made on Facebook about one of the Canditates. I took her to task about it as those sort of unproven and vile accusations would never have been made in an UK election and her vitrolic response shocked me. I wondered what views she had learnt in her church.

Again, thank you for responding. I guess many things were at play and I reached a breaking point of sadness. I think it might take awhile to get over but my style is to keep going and hope. I'm not sure that is productive? I depress my son when I speak of feeling rejected. He will say you are welcome anytime. (just call first to see we are home). The reality is the children have tons of activities, both parents work, and DIL is very involved with her mother or vice versa. If I want to take them to plays etc there is never time or I have to take the whole family which is expensive. I don't want to sound like I am complaining. My heart finally broke is all. I will try to move on and just be glad for anytime with them but I think I will avoid future events with the other grandparents where I am sure to be odd man out. Since the other grandmother sees them many times a week and over night I do think she could extend a courtesy of backing off when I am around but she seems to step it up instead. I cant control others so I will try to control myself and realize this is how it is. Thank you for thinking of me.

First Hugs. Having foreign relatives I have been in celebrations that I maybe don't feel part of but never where children were being taught I was going to Hell.

Re driving yourself. As you had your own car people would not offer you a lift from the church but someone could have offered to keep you company on the drive to the other materanal parents house. Your son was the obvious choice but most likely he was driving his own car and family. I think you must have been feeling very vulnerabe by that time, first attending a service that you did not feel part of and secondly by finding our what your grandchildren were being taught. No wonder there is religious friction and wars.

The children not looking at you, I think that they may have been concentrating on their part in the service and at 8 it is all a bit scary. Also the Catholic family would be very excited about the occasion, must have been a bit like someone from a different culture attending our Christmas day celebrations.

I feel you should have private chat with your son about this and maybe next time he will give you a bit more support.

Many years ago I attended a Conference of American women clubs (I am English) in Dublin. On one coach tour of Dublin I was amazed about how Irish/ Englihs history was told to these Americans and I sat in the back of the coach with all these Americans looking at me as if I was personally responsible.

My other reaction was that I would feel like writing to someone high up in the Catholic church and protest or Ofsted who monitor what children are taught in schools as maybe your grandchildren are being taught the same at school. There would be an great outcry if a nonchristian religion was teaching this to children. Maybe someone with influence is reading your post.

Good to hear this is not normal from other Catholics and I hope not in any religion.

Not sure I would take the route you suggest Carol as it might just make things worse if you make things difficult for their priest.

I don't blame religion at all here but blame the people who perhaps used their religion to isolate you. It is cruel what some people are capable of. I would just concentrate on my grandchildren and just hope you get some backing from your son? Xx

The Catholic Church has no right to be 'Holier than Thou'. Throughout the ages they have caused so much sorrow. Look at their track record, they have burned people alive at the stake, they have wiped out whole communities who were not Catholic and refused to change. They have taken away babies from Mothers and sold them to other people, making the Mothers feel they were unclean. They have been found guilty of treating children in catholic schools cruelly, now they are having to explain why there is a mass burial ground where pregnant Mothers were sent to give birth to their babies. Some of their priests have been found to be paedophiles and they have not been punished for it, only posted away to other places to start again. The Church of England is not squeaky clean either. They have stood by while people have been tortured, look at the 'Christian' Germans how cruel they were during WWI and WWII. Christians guilty of mass murder and cruelty never seen before or after the 2 x wars. Look at how they have treated women who wanted to become priests, they are both guilty at the end of the day of not obeying the Ten Commandments. Look how rich both religions are from the toils of others. I think you should live and let live myself. You should not Judge lest you are Judged by a Higher Power! Both religions seem to have forgotten about that Commandment.

Maybe it was just thoughtless, and not deliberately excluding you, but I doubt that. Try not to take it to heart, just be ready when those Grandchildren come knocking at your door, as they surely will.

How down this made you feel which is a sorry state of mind.
Please do what Starbird has suggested, get an appointment to go to talk to the officiating priest, make a letter for yourself of the points that made it so. As a priest he would have it in his gift to remedy some of them. The next few messages that he imparts should be about inclusion, enabling others to not feel left out, the goodness in being the Good Samaritan. Perhaps he might be the one to say 'there, there'. You never know what good may come flowing your way, the feeling of being out crowd may melt away. Go on give it a try, if you meet with bluster go higher to the bishop, there is at least a hierachy to give support and structure. Well done to post it.

I meant when my granny died aged grandpa was left alone

My grandpa was Protestant, my granny catholic, and the nuns did a great job of looking after my grandpa when he died even tho he never converted. In my mind we re all christians, full stop. At least you were invited. I'd just let it pass and say nothing, even tho naturally u feel gutted. You want to keep as good a relationship as you can with them all. Do you have any common non religious interests in common, do you live far away, could u have grandson for a sleepover ?

This is what you get when you mix two strong religions. Both have separate ideas and never the twain shall meet. I hate all this bigotry and all the unkind things both sides say about each other. When the Catholic Church and the Church of England (for example) get their act together and sort out priests who abuse children then people might listen to them. No wonder people are turning their backs on them. They are sick of double standards. When Jewish people stop saying people of other religions will be going to hell and they are the 'chosen ones' then they need to moderate their language too. My religion says that you can pray any time, anywhere you do not need to be in a church and that you are to treat other people with kindness and that is what my whole life has been about. Religion throughout the ages has caused untold suffering and division. Sometimes it makes you think if there were no religions at all the world would be a better place, but then in a war zone or in a bereavement or hard times I believe that people need something positive to cling to to help them through hard times.

May1 I am so sorry for you. Unfortunately the mother of a son is not usually as close to the family as the girl's mother, although there are always exceptions. I never felt comfortable with my in laws around although they were kind and lovely people. Having a different religion makes it worse although your DIL seems to be making use of that to widen the gap.

If it were me I sould go and visit this new priest and have a friendly chat - tell him what effect his words have had,, and see if it was deliberate or if he spoke carelessly. See this website www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/10/03/if-you-are-human-mix-with-humans-pope-quotes-muslim-poet-in-speech-on-religion/

and others like it. Does his Bishop know and agree with his views?
As the children grow older hopefully they will make their own mind up on things (which could cause problems in the family). Your son is in a very difficult position - it sounds as though he has opted for a course that brings unity within the family, but at the moment it is making you feel excluded.

The best thing that can happen will be if the children do not go to a Catholic HS!

Please don't feel that you have to answer each post individually. Warm greetings.

Well imo if it wasn't for both sets of Grandparents there would be no Grandchildren! You are the Mother of the children's Father. You will always be that and they are not very Christian if they leave you out of their celebrations. So cruel.

Do not cry, if they are worth anything at all these children will grow up and see how hurtful all this has been for you, then you might expect a knock on the door and you will be ready with welcoming arms, won't you!

Not a Christian attitude it seems, May1. I was once told by a minister 'your life may be the only bible that someone reads'; on that basis those members of your family who seems to be sidelining you in the most painful way are not exactly evangelising for their faith. If they are really followers of Christ they might do well to remember that He mixed with everyone, including society's outcasts. I'm afraid that this is what really bugs me about organised religion. I too had a friend who cooled quite a lot when she became deeply involved with a local church and told me she was 'too frightened' to step back a bit - and have room for friends who weren't so obsessed with attending every service. So sad for you; I'm sure you are loved just as much by the children who were probably distracted by the event and if you continue to be a loving granny that is all, and everything, you can do.

The notion of just going to anything you are invited to attend for your GC is good. During Church or sports the GC are self or event focused, and adults are just watchers. Much like the tail number people at the end of an air strip. So, if it were me, I'd start going to the games again to clap and say "well done".

It seems you see your DS and child a good amount of time.

And you visit alone with your son, wonderful.

Ignore the Priest and the negative religious parts and don't worry about what the others did after. I never invite people over in front of non-invites, quite rude. My sils are co to their families, one before I met him, so there is no idea to joint events, I find that bit normal.

You have received nice advice, I'm glad you feel better.

MAY1
I feel for you as I have been in much the same circumstances of rejection in the name of religion. This fortunately was not family but a so called friend which still upsets me.
I can never understand those people who call themselves Christian but have such contempt for others who do not share their beliefs. Did not Jesus have compassion for all?