It has gone to the legal stage re my Grandson

I know nothing about how all this works once the SS get involved but it sounds like they suspect your daughter is drinking and don't want to make the mistake of putting your DGS back with her without being sure so I guess that might be a good thing. I realise your DGS is ASD and that makes it so very difficult for him but imagine him being sent back to his Mum and the chaos which would inevitably be part and parcel of his life before it disintegrated completely. Of course this doesn't take away the upset for you and DGS but the end result could be more positive with the threat of him going back to his Mum completely removed which sounds as if he finds it too overwhelming. At least at a centre it is not your word against your daughters and I suspect that if she if drinking again, it will quickly become obvious because it is an extremely slippery slope for an alcoholic.
It may be they are looking at your role to ensure that you are protected in the case of ill-health and that your daughter will not be able to just step in if you were hospitalised suddenly, which could happen to anyone.
You have done such a fantastic job so far and I am sure that they will let you continue because, with all the best will in the world, it would not be easy to place your GS anywhere else. Hopefully this is a blip in the process which will see you and your DGS return to a more settled future.

nannynoo I looked at your profile and you are quite young to have a nine year old grandson. These days women your age could even be his mother. Why are they worried about your health? Of course it is always a good idea to have a backup in case of a short term illness which can happen to anybody, but apart from that, if you don't already do so, make the best of yourself, wear some make up and dress smartly when you have these meetings. Try and come across as confident, well and strong. I know that might be hard to do with all the worry about your grandson, you will probably have had a sleepness night before the meeting, but what I'm trying to say is look after yourself too. Wishing you all the best.

Nannynoo - like Trisher I think you're doing a brilliant job.
I don't know the current legislation about children in situations like yours, but it could be that it's part of a routine review system. (There used to be a SW on here who knew about all this.)
From what you say, your Social Worker supports you, and has a good idea of what's the right thing to do for the good of your boy.

It seetms very unfair for a young child to have to go to a contact centre after school when all he wants to do is go home and relax. He will not be at his best which is also unfair on his mother. Is there any chance that it can be arranged to start in the summer holidays so that he will not be tired, and the routine will be set for when he goes back to school? The bus ride will add to his stress but if they can start this during the holidays he will have a chance to get used to it as the busses will not be very busy.
Do you have documentation about his dental visits that you can produce? The dentist receptionist mught be able to produce a printout for you?
My thoughts are with you in this difficult situation.

Apologies, I haven't seen your previous threads, however this does seem to have been going on for a very long time before legal gate keeping and a comprehensive parenting assessment being undertaken. (I say that as someone who worked in front line children's services for over 20 years). I do understand your concerns about the impact of all this on your grandson, however if the evidence to make permanent plans for him is not in place, it will have to be done. As a Kinship cared do you have your own SW who can offer you additional support during this process and the court proceedings?

With regard to the possibility/likelihood of your daughter not turning up regularly and being under the influence of alcohol:
- If your daughter is under the influence, will the contact session go ahead or will she be turned away?
- Would your daughter agree to be breathalysed as part of the assessment / before contact sessions?
- Would it be possible for your daughter to attend the contact venue early enough to check that she is in a fit state for the visit to go ahead (with a cut off time to cancel if she has not arrived) so that you do not bring your grandson unnecessarily?

If these contact times and venue are to be for the benefit of the mother then surely she needs to contribute towards the cost by sharing the transport logistics. Also, if you hope to get full custody one day your discipline needs to be good enough to take your grandchild on the bus and not expect to pay out for a taxi.

When DS was coming up to his 6th birthday, SS decided because he had Aspergers, it must be due to bad parenting and took him into care. The social worker hated us and tried to have him adopted, but forgot to mention this to head of SS, who was shocked and angry and promptly stopped him having any child care responsibilities. We eventually managed to get DS placed with my MIL where he stayed for the next 7 years, when he finally came home to us. She did eventaully get financial help with him, but we've had to rebuild appropriate relationship with him, regarding one another as best friends rather than parent/grown-up child. I can't sympathise enough - it's sheer unadulterated hell, but sounds like you're getting the best deal you can at present. Best wishes and keep your head above water - you're clearly doing an amazing job.

You are a wonderful Grandmother, my heart goes out to you and the little man who is caught up in this, I sincerely hope everything turns out well, and GS can stay in your loving care.
Sending hugs to you both

Nannynoo I can't offer any better advice than those already posted (apart from legray, obv.) Seems to me you're doing a fantastic job trying to keep things together for the little chap, despite the obstacles that keep coming your way. Hugs and from me.

Nannymoo, I think in discussing this you are answering your own questions. Not sure SS are setting your daughter up to fail but they are trying to get a true picture of your daughter's situation. They can't say once an alcoholic she can't control her addiction,or what would be the point of all the time and effort by many agencies in trying to help people with addictions. You say they want to make a plan in case of your ill health. If they have evidence that your daughter cannot care for him she won't be part of that plan at this time hence their plan to try and see how your daughter and GS are together.

The dentist, you just state the situation re his dental appointment at the meeting, maybe ask the SW to check it out with his dentist, and there will be no problem.

You do sound uncooperative in parts of your post which might explain Legray22's post but I am sure this is due to your highly stressed state which as you say effects your GS who you love and care about.

How can you reduce your stress? Have a nice time with family, your GS and friends and refuse to discuss it until needed. SS are checking your daughters alcohol levels with hair tests so you saying you think she had been drinking or there was a bottle in her kitchen is a waste of your emotional energy and not evidence so try to step away from this. I say this as you need to be calm for your GS. As a worrier myself I know this is not easy to do but I know that doing something I enjoy especially with friends and family helps. Hope all calms down soon.

All I can say is thank goodness for Gransnet as it must be a great comfort to have so much support in times of trouble. Sounds as though you are doing a great job Nannymoo. Keep fighting.

Poor you all the worry for you D and then again for your grandson. I found working in SS that the more you do, the more they make you jump through hoops, and sometimes playing it cool is useful, so if there are to be increased visits etc then I would be asking to be paid any costs in relation to those, I am unsure about what you do get paid to cover his upkeep (we know you don't want it)but do make sure you get what you are entitled to.

Do you have legal cover on your household insurance? it won't cover court proceedings but you can ususally get telephone advice free if you have it.

I can only assume legray22 that you are new to this thread and have not read or understood what the situation is.
To suggest nannynoo (or indeed ANY parent of an alcoholic, recovering or not) is failing in their duty to encourage sobriety us unhelpful, ill-informed, cruel and crass. As for accusing her of encouraging her in her drinking - WTF do you get that idea from?
There but for grace of god etc but there will be other grans who can tell it like it is, and your observation beggars belief

HAS to consider (obviously) not hasn't.

It is a shame that they cannot just do spot checks on her between contact visits without bringing the child into it. Sometime systems start to over-ride their basic purpose.

legray22 nannynoo hasn't gone into detail about her relationship with her daughter but alcoholics can't always be helped and she hasn't to consider her own health and that or her grandson first. Your comment was very judgmental and harsh. There is a limit to what people can cope with and what they can achieve however much they may want to.

Why are you not encouraging your daughter in her sobriety? She is your child and I'm afraid, it is your duty to help her, not hinder her.

See, we told you that the social services would realise their mistake sooner or later. And now, because you cooperated, they are still backing him living with you

nannymoo you are doing a brilliant job! really don't have much experience of the care system, but I do know that there is a thing called the UN charter on the rights of the child. This says that children should be allowed to contribute to any decision taken that will affect them dependant upon their age and ability. It sounds as if your GS has a real idea about what he wants and someone should be listening to him. Perhaps you could ask your social worker to talk to him and really listen to his worries. It doesn't seem right that he should be the subject of some sort of 'experiment' to see if your daughter is able to parent him. Stay strong you are obviously his rock and he needs you.

nannynoo it never ends for you does it? Could your DD see your DGS at your house, to save cab fares ( tell them you have no money cabs are expensive) or will a home visit not be allowed? Sounds as if your DGS, whilst wanting to see his Mum, does not want to leave you and live there.Is the boyfriend with a history still living with your DD, did you tell SS about him? Your DGS may be worrying about that man( quite rightly!) The best thing for him is that he lives with you, but doesn't lose contact with his Mum, and she must really want to see him of course, even though she is not abke to oarent him properly.You have taken a lot on, and I do hope it will be alright for you in the end, and him of course.

I don't get any allowance or support from SS.
Due to my GS being put at severe risk I had to take over his care suddenly.
As soon as I did I contacted SS but they said as he was already in my care it was a private arrangement and they didn't have to be involved.
It's a loophole they use with many kinship Carers to avoid paying.
I am not knocking social workers by saying this. I have a family member who is one and I know what distressing financial constraints they have to work under.
If the child is placed by SS then they have to pay even if a CAO is in place. Not sure though if the amount is as much as you will be receiving now. I know it is far less than a foster carer receives but varies from county to county.
They often press for a SGO and I have heard of many cases where payment is stopped altogether after a short time. SS have little or no involvement after a SGO is granted.
You can google the difference between CAO and SGO as I am not entirely sure. I know SGO gives more rights to the person who has it.
I never applied for one as there is so much evidence against my daughter that I know the CAO would never be overturned in court.
You are in a very difficult situation. If you are dependent on the allowance you receive from SS then I would take advice before doing anything.
This sounds as if all I am interested in is money. Far from the truth but anything I received would be used to improves GSs life and future.
He does get DLA, tax credits and child benefit so although a struggle we manage.
Luckily I have very supportive children and although they can't help at present as they are working, paying mortgages or rent and have their own young children, I know that whenever necessary GS will have a home with them.

nannynoo I hope this helps to explain why your daughter is still drinking - there is no "magic bullet" that fixes alcohol dependence and many people will "slip and slide" their way to abstinence in a "three steps forward and two steps back" kind of way, please remain hopeful because there is evidence of an accumulative positive effect with repeated attempts at achieving sobriety.

I am not excusing her behaviour just offering some explanation.

Good luck with your meetings, it makes me bristle when officialdom interferes with common sense...

nannynoo I have followed you for some time and admire your tenacity. I hope that you can stay strong for your DGS who needs the stability your care provides for him. I have no experience of your problems so can not offer any useful practical advice. I just hope the authorities can see sense and take note of what this little boy really needs and what you are providing for him. Thinking of you both. xx

My Grandson is a LAC and my daughter still has PR at present

Do you get an allowance with a residence order as well as regular respite etc?

The contact is part of her upcoming parenting assessment , they want to see if she will fail to turn up or turn up under the influence of alcohol etc as once a week is not enough to fully show this they said and they want to see if she will be consistent as if still drinking she will probably miss visits etc or turn up intoxicated like she did before , it is like they are giving her the chance to fail ( along with the chance to pass ) but it does not bode well anyway as she is still currently drinking , refusing counselling or help and has not fully made the lifestyle changes necessary to parent my Grandson successfully so it feels like a 'test' which they pretty much expect her to fail so they can then go to court with it tbh

They are not considering the impact on my GS in all this contact 'testing' though but when the sw tried to make this point they ''shut her down'' and she said they were talking about FOUR times a week at first!!

TBH it feels like they are trying to set her up to fail as part of the plan and as she has not stopped drinking she is very likely to fail even though she is holding down a job successfully , saying that when my daughter puts her mind to something she will try anything to 'trick' the authorities and her family to get him back but with hair strand testing as well etc hopefully it will all come out in the wash and they have done this all before it seems as she said it was common practice but still not fair on a little boy with Autism let alone me

I am upset with my daughter as although I had a feeling she was being deceptive it still did not protect me from the emotional shock today of the reality of hearing she is definitely still drinking when she said she has stopped for the past 7 months and everything else APART from my gut feeling was pointing that way , it hurts even to be deceived and betrayed like that but trust is something it is hard to do with an alcoholic and betrayal and deceit seem to go with the territory but it still does not soften the emotional impact of finding out she has been lying for the past 7 months and the rest of the family are more in shock than I am as they weren't getting the gut feeling that I was , so at least that prepared me a bit for what I heard today at least

My friend pointed out today that there was a picture of my daughters new kitchen with a litre bottle of vodka on the side , if my daughter was truly in recovery and had stopped drinking that would NOT BE THERE!! I don't know why she thought people would not notice even though I didn't but my friend has vision problems and zooms in to see all pictures hence spotting the bottle! lol

I do feel betrayed though and it is not a nice feeling and I know her sister feels the same as well as angry as up till now no one in the family has accepted I might be raising my Grandson for life!!

Whereas I myself have got used to the idea even though I was hoping at first that my daughter would recover but sadly she is an alcoholic and not a recovering alcoholic and deep down I knew it xx

I just need to come to terms with it really but will let you know if there are any updates etc x

New member so haven't seen your previous posts.
I am also a grandparent kinship carer, for 10 years now, to an 11 year old grandson with SEN.
Is your GS a LAC or do you have parental responsibility for him ?
I have a residence order, now called CAO, which does not take away the parent's PR but states that GS must live at my address with me.
I got it myself in court and it was easy but then my daughter was in no position to oppose it.
Social services may press you to get a SGO. If you are receiving an allowance from them I would be very wary of this as I have heard from other kinship Carers that although they say they will continue the allowance after the SGO it is frequently stopped. This does not happen with a CAO.
The contact does not sound reasonable and I would suggest you contact
www.frg.org.uk/
and
www.grandparentsplus.org.uk/
I have found both of them very helpful.
I hope you manage to sort things out for your GS and am happy for you to PM me if I can help in any way.

Thank you hildajenniJ

He also picks up on my stress and anxiety which of course makes his anxiety worse but after all the news I have had today I feel wound up and in shock so am going to have to do my best to chill myself right out or it will be a difficult weekend which of course I don't want but he 'senses' when things are wrong / changing and he does not like it and I DON'T BLAME HIM and I don't like it too! lol but as long as everything works out alright in the end and he has a stable permanent home at the end of it I reckon that will help him heaps emotionally as he does not know if he is coming or going right now ( literally ) and the increased contact with his Mum 3 times a week will probably confuse him even more as he doesn't quite know why ''he has a room at Mummys house'' now , but am angry at my daughter for lying to the whole family and telling us she has stopped drinking for the past 7 months when she hasn't!!! but I had a gut feeling her 'recovery' was not a genuine one

I only found out today she has still been drinking and when i spoke to her today she definitely seemed under the influence which she has not for a long while when I have talked to her but it seems she has been keeping it under wraps of course

I had a gut feeling about it so it's not too much of a shock tbh , just hate the deception of it all xx

With poor little man in the middle of it but will do everything I can to keep him safe and well x