Childcare

Certainly my parents and friends parents did not offer or were expected to provide childcare in the 70's/80's. Nor babysitting, we just arranged and exchanged tokens with friends and neighbours if we wanted to go out, but that happened rarely as we didnt have any spare money. Life in the 70's was expensive and generally mothers did not go back to work, you left work before giving birth and jobs were not held open. No maternity pay either.
We provide regular childcare and babysitting but feel we often miss out on family time with adult children present, with us just being able to be grandparents.
In our case the nursery provision of 15 hours is divided by 5 ( days a week) so if only 1 or two days at nursery they would only get 3 or 6 hours. Not including school holidays when full payment is required with no govt assistance.
There are a lot of expectations on grandparents today, not only childcare but financial and practical assistance too.
I try not to feel guilty if we go away and always try to fit it round childcare, which can be awkward.
We are getting older (dh already 3 score and 10) and do find it increasingly difficult to keep up with energetic small children, but our input is still needed. Not sure when we can actually 'retire'.

My mum looked after both of mine whilst I worked p/t during the day and when they were slightly older doing nursery and school pick ups.
I took early retirement partly to look after the GC and partly to care for mum.
The free entitlement didn't cover all the hours D worked. Their GF was an equal care giver, feeding, changing etc.

We just got on with it, at the same time as caring for my sick mother.

Now we help with childcare (love spending time with GC) and look after MIL (with dementia)
Truly feel like the 'Sandwich generation'

DD just misses out on free child placement at 2 yrs old and has to wait until her DS is 3yrs old.
She can only afford 2 afternoons so this is where we have stepped in .
We also looked after eldest GS until started school this year.
We now help with after school pick up.
And have both GS every other weekend
Which we both enjoy even if we are completely whacked by the end of the day.

My DGS came along just after my own DF Died (I had been his carer) so instead of returning to work I took on the role of child care.
It has affected me financially as I will not get my state pension until 2025.
So retired but no pension.

My DH has now retired and is very hands on with both our GS.
(We have one other GS who we only see every few months)

I returned to work when my daughter was 8 days old ,I was self employed so had no option,my husband ran the business with me and I took my baby into the office in her pram.My parents didn't babysit,but that was for a variety of reasons including my mothers health.My in-laws took her on weekends as they were our busiest time .I've had all my GC part time for 14 years and worked part time and my daughter job shared with me.Now I have one GD for half of every week ,we take her to and from school and she considers this her home.My OH doesn't have much input he still works full time ,though he does pick her up from school 15 miles away if I have other commitments .I still work part time,.I also cared for my llate mum for 12 years while looking after children and having a teenager of my own.So not the easiest time,like many here I SHOULD have had my pension 3 years ago and indeed expected to get it but wont until 2020.I have never felt it an obligation to look after the people I love and will continue as long as I'm needed.Sadly my daughter has chronic illness so we may move to be nearer to her so we can help with her 3

Our parents were rarely involved in child care. I stopped work when number one was born and went back at the weekends when number two was 3 as Me C was always gone then. Once both were at school I worked during term time only. It never occurred to me to ask anyone to help out. I wonder what they would have said if I had asked?

One part of the family needs help to cover school holidays, the other has a tight familial Childcare rota. It works unless someone is ill.

Our culture encourages both parents to work, finances ensure they will. Grandparents can be 'encouraged' to Make huge commitments to childcare. The adult children asking for this generally appear to expect it.

Some grandparents would welcome focused support, some are fine and would see no purpose to it. As for grandads taking a share of the childcare well, why shouldn't they? We have male midwives, why be surprised if a grandfather cares for his grandchildren?

Oh for an edit button

Mr not Me
Home not gone (!)

Sometimes I wonder if I will be doing the school run for a third time round, when my grand daughter has a baby!

I think the amount of child minding GPs do now is way off the scale.
My parents babysat or had the children for the very rare overnighter /weekend but I had to either stay at home or work a few part time hours around school. I did have a child minder for a couple of hours after school but only for a few months. So what I couldn't afford I did without.
I was working full time and going to my mums 3 evenings a week and doing her housework on Saturdays - this lasted about 5 years until she died 10 years ago. Then I looked after my grandsons a couple of days a week then their much younger little sister came along. I looked after her twice a week for about the first 18 months until I became really ill with heart problems. I now just babysit or provide emergency help, as son and dil work shifts around my grand daughter which works pretty well.
From what I learn from friends etc some grandparents go way beyond what should be reasonable help, taking on 2 and 3 even 4 grandchildren, all for free. (not even petrol money) Don't know how they do it - I know some who also provide financial help on top of this. So I would say things have changed radically over the years.

1) Have grandparents always provided childcare support or do you think they are being relied upon more year on year?

Not on the same level. My parents or in-laws did very little babysitting for me. I was not able to work until my children went to school but I really didn't mind as I enjoyed being a stay at home mum. We just cut our cloth accordingly. Nowadays, most mothers, including my own children, return to work (out of necessity) and yes it is 'expected' that grandparents babysit if they are close enough. When I took my children to school there were very few grandparents doing the school run and they stood out. Nowadays, its the 'parents' who stand out as there are so many grandparents doing the school run.

2) Have some of you (or people you know) felt obliged or forced to take early retirement because parents have no other care options?

Yes: I took early retirement so that I could help my daughters with their childcare but now wish I hadn't as I now have ten grandchildren and I find it such hard going trying to keep everyone happy.

3) Are parents requiring support those who
a) receive free entitlement but it doesn’t cover their needs
b) those who are not entitled to free hours, and can’t afford to pay for provision

In my case its a bit of both. I have four daughters all with young children. Two of my daughters work irregular hours and can start really early or finish really late and therefore childminders/nurseries are not really an option. Also school holidays are a massive problem too. One of my daughters needs more help than the others as, through no fault of her own, she is now a single parent. She is finding it tough emotionally as well as practically.

4) What does this say about the current state of childcare provision?

We need a different approach to it. I still have to work as I can't make any money childminding my own grandchildren. I was told I could register as a childminder but that I would have to have children other than my own grandchildren in order to qualify? As I have so many of my own - I could not take other children; consequently I cannot register and receive any Government payment, whereas my daughters could take their children to complete strangers and qualify for free childcare.

5) Are grandparents getting enough support?

From whom? I feel it is expected from our children that we co-parent their children. Its hard work when you get older and I don't think young people understand this. Because I had 4 children in five years, incl twins, they seem to think I should be able to look after 4 children now without any problems. I keep telling them, I was 28 years younger!!!!! I love them all but I still have to work part-time too and I am a carer for my elderly mother so juggling work, 10 kids, my mum is difficult and I feel I have absolutely no free time - oh and forgot the dog!!!

6) Do you find more grandads are involved in looking after grandchildren than in previous years?

My husband is step-grandad and he does help a lot. Sometimes he gets frustrated but basically he will step in and babysit when I have to work.

My grandmother looked after my older sister while my mother worked Ina munitions factory during the war.
My mother looked after my daughter for 18 months when I went back to work, 5 days a week. My parents were always happy to have the children to stay overnight at the weekend and, when they were older, for whole weekends. They didn't live near enough to help with the school run.
I have done the school run in the afternoon more in the last 12 years than I ever did for my own children who used to walk home from school and let themselves in as I was teaching.
My DS and DiL rely on two sets of grandparents and a doting auntie to fill in the gaps left by a part time nanny. They really need a full time live in person.

All my friends seem to be in the same position. I even k ow people who go to A Erica for three months every summer to look after GC while they are off school in the summer and their parents work.

The only answer is to live too far away to do it, as I do. I love my grandchildren, but I am no longer up to coping with children on a regular basis. I also think that if you’ve brought up one set of children you deserve a break, not the same job all over again.

I would never have asked my parents to do it. They lived near enough to come by car and we did see each other often, but I didn't feel it was their job to look after my children. After my husband died they offered to come one evening a week so I could go to choir practice. By then the children were old enough not to be exhausting, and would spend the evening doing their homework and watching a bit of television.

It would never have entered my head to ask them to take the children so that I could go away.

As for my grandparents - the thought of them providing childcare is just laughable!

The ex-teacher next door to me doesn’t go out to work. She has three children of primary school age, and she looks after them herself. It is lovely to see that this still happens. Her husband has a good job, but I see plenty of much better-off families where there is a frantic scramble for childcare, because both parents are determined to have as much money as possible.

As you can probably tell, I think parents are responsible for looking after their children themselves except in special circumstances. Not a fashionable view. In fact I rarely see it even mentioned as a possibility.

My parents were too far away to offer childcare. My own children look after their own offspring in a way that suits them and their work best. We look after our GC in special situations and we're on hand to help when needed. I agree with Grandma70s last paragraph. I think young parents have higher expectations than we had

1) My parents and parents in law didn't live close enough to be involved with childcare and we have not been involved in childcare either for the same reason. In the 1970s when I had children work opportunities were very limited; no maternity leave, no childcare, few part-time opportunities. Most women stopped work and stayed home for the first 5 years at least.

Grandparents are more involved in childcare now because most women return to work within a year of giving birth and childcare is expensive and most parents would prefer their child to be cared for by a family member.

However I am amazed the lengths that some GP go to provide childcare. Some friends travel three hourseach way and stay overnight to provide 2 days child care.

2) I do not know of anyone taking early retirement or reducing their hours to provide childcare.

3) Don't know

4) Ideally all under 5 childcare should be part of the free education system

5) Don't know

6) yes.

*Grandma70s. I agree with you. It is the parent's responsibility to look after their children. Grandparent involvement should be entirely voluntary and not require them to make major sacrifices to provide care.

I live 200 miles from my DGC so providing regular childcare is not an option. But I have, in an emergency, jumped into the car and driven the 200 miles to provide care. DDiL's mother who lives close by did provide childcare for one day a week when DDiL first returned to work, but this was because she wanted to do this. DGC went to nursery on all the other days.

My parents were our emergency child care if one of us couldn't take a day off to care for a sick child. I wouldn't have dreamed of expecting more than that. My experience is that all our friends are actively involved in child care to help their adult children work. A couple of friends who live in the north west spend two days a week in London looking after grandchildren.

Yes, grandfathers are equally actively involved in child care within our family and friendship groups.

We do a day a week child care for our toddler grandchildren. We're emergency cover if one of them is poorly so can't go to nursery on one of the other days and parents have to go in to work . Everyone I know supplements nursery days by doing a day or two a week child care. Some friends who don't live near enough to look after grandchildren, pay for two days a week nursery fees instead.

One of the reasons for grandparents involvement in child care is the extortionate cost of child care. Many young parents have to travel distances to work, often with poor public transport links or car journeys that should take half an hour but take an hour and a half, that the length of the working day is just too much for infants and young children. There is also the love we feel for our adult children and grandchildren. We were a pioneering generation with often both parents in full time work. We know how hard it is, how tired you get so we get tired as well.

It's family life isn't it, thankfully.

1) I think GPs never had to provide childcare because mothers tended to take time out from work, returning when their children were older, frequently only part time to enable school pick ups.
2) don't know anyone personally but have heard stories.
3)Both in my case.
4)Child care provision has never been a properly planned service. It has been cobbled together and so fails to actually meet the needs of working mums. An example of this are the nursery classes in schools. They frequently advertise vacancies but because of the limited hours they offer, the holidays and other factors these places are unsuitable for most working mums. Private nurseries offer a much more extensive service but of course charge more. The way the free places are calculated is complicated and does not provide for full time care but is based on the school term. A complete overhaul looking at all the things involved would help.
5) GPs receive no support. It would be good to see some sort of social centres where they could meet and take GCs
6) Don't know

1) Have grandparents always provided childcare support or do you think they are being relied upon more year on year?

In some communities, such as farming and fishing, it was the norm for grandparents to live with their family and look after the children while parents worked. In the main families tended to live close to each other. Over the last 40 years or so the financial need for both parents to work has increased drastically. At the same time most grandparents have experienced better health and life expectancy and so more have been able to offer childcare for their grandchildren.

2) Have some of you (or people you know) felt obliged or forced to take early retirement because parents have no other care options?

Despite my son being in full-time employment my DiL needed financially to return to work at the time I was considering retiring. I had been quite ill a few months earlier so it seemed a no-brainer to me that I would retire and move nearer them, so we could be of mutual help to each other. No coercion involved, it was just a sensible solution on both sides.

3) Are parents requiring support those who
a) receive free entitlement but it doesn’t cover their needs
b) those who are not entitled to free hours, and can’t afford to pay for provision

For my DS and DiL it is option b. Living in London they can't afford to pay for childcare provision, despite bringing home a reasonable joint income in comparison to other parts of the country.

4) What does this say about the current state of childcare provision?

There is not enough affordable childcare in areas of financial hardship. For example, London is considered a wealthy city but there is a high level of poverty among its inhabitants who provide the basic services for those with the money, yet are expected to pay the same prices for childcare and groceries etc.

5) Are grandparents getting enough support?

Rather an ambiguous question. I consider myself lucky in that I have good emotional support from my family, friends and neighbours but financially I am limited to my pension. How could I ask family to pay me for childcare when the parents both need to work to afford any quality of life?

6) Do you find more grandads are involved in looking after grandchildren than in previous years?

From hearsay yes but not in our family.

Finally I would like to echo silverlining48 's comment that I provide regular childcare and babysitting but often feel I miss out on family time with DS and DiL. I know they would be horrified to know I sometimes feel they only have time for me to be grandma.

My mother babysat one evening for me, when my daughter was around 8 months old. She never offered again. I have moved from the South East to the North West to look after my grandson 10 to 12 hours per day, 5 days per week while both his parents work. I also help out at weekends but not by myself then obviously. I was a single mum so it's just me. It was my choice as I didn't want my grandson to go to nursery full time from the age of 4 months and I had been made redundant the year before. They are both career minded professionals but they do have a large mortgage to pay. I love looking after him - luckily, as they even went for a 4 day city break when he was 3 months old and a 10 day holiday when he was 7 months old, so I had my work cut out then. So yes, things have certainly changed a lot in my experience.

Some women took time out trisher. I did with my early 1970's baby because there was no maternity leave, the expectation was you resigned when you felt ready to finish, or your employer decided you should go. My mother had cared for her siblings as both her parents were at work from 6am, 12 hour shifts. She was determined we would always have her at home to care for us and that worked for my parents, to a degree.
By the time I had my next babies in the 80's, maternity leave and flexible working was available. I'd been divorced and despite being in a very happy 2nd marriage (I still am) I was determined never to be financially dependent on a life partner again. I continued working full time with the support of a partner who saw the care of our children as a joint responsibility. It was a stretch, especially as one salary went on running an (essential) 2nd car (a banger) and paying our child minder. I've no regrets on that though and my adult children are a joy who don't seem to have suffered from having two working parents.

Iam64, we had our children at much the same time (early 70s). There was no choice, stop work or return to work immediately after the birth to the same hours and job conditions, which was out of the question, especially if, like me, you were a London commuter.

I was fortunate to have the opportunity to get part-time work, school hours, school holidays, and did so as soon as my younger child started full-time at nursery when she was 4. I returned to full time work when she was 9 and thanks to having my MiL move to live near us, to a proper career post in London when she was 11.

DH always supported my career but as his job required a lot of foreign travel, often at short notice ( a few hours) and for indeterminate lengths of time, he could not be relied on for much help although we did co-ordinate our leave to cover school holidays.

1) My maternal grandparents did a huge amount of child care for my parents when my sister and I were small (60's and 70's) We were rarely away from their house. My parents sadly didn't feel obliged in anyway to babysit for me (even as a single working parent) and I relied on nursery and strangers. When I had my own grandchildren I vowed to try and live up to my own grandparents standards (not my parents) and help out as much as I possibly can.

2) Couldn't take early retirement (I wish) but have juggled my days and hours to suit the grandchildren. I also use my holiday entitlement to look after them for blocks of days/weeks.

3) My grandchildren are 11,9 and 7 now so there is no free help available. I think governments must think that all working parents do 9.30-2.30 jobs and have all the school holidays off work.

4) Its rubbish. see above. Parents work long days and sometimes shift work. Work is not a case of dropping children at school, doing a couple of hours then getting away for 2.30 to pick them up again. Most parents (other than teachers) only get 4-5 weeks holidays per year. How do they think this works?

5) It is not the grandparents who need the support it is the working parents. I look after my grandchildren because I want to and because I want to give something back to the family as a whole.

6) My husband works very long hours but does occasionally look after the children for a few hours here and there on a weekend (taking them to football, gymnastics etc) he doesn't really do straight forward blocks of childcare but would be very capable if he had to. When my grandma and mum were very ill, I was often called away for long periods of times (when I had the grandchildren staying) and my husband took over the reigns very capably and although they would have every toy out at the same time, they were perfectly happy and very well looked after, fed and watered etc.
When I was a child I looked after my granddad more than he looked after me (he was never very well). My dad would have no more have looked after my children than fly to the moon and back.

My mother died when my DD was just 3 months old and my Dad to his credit did babysit occasionally of an evening so DH and I could have an evening out. I looked after my two children every day of their young lives they never stayed anywhere else until their teenage years with friends. I left work as was the custom in the 70s and looked after them. I worked in JS a couple of of hours of an evening when DH could take over.
Fast forward I have 2 GC my DD kids. Before she had our GS I said I didn't want to do childminder on a regular basis one reason because we go away frequently in the summer and selfishly I suppose, I wanted to carry on. I have stepped in when necessary and we have them overnight sometimes and that I enjoy. DD is the best and has never taken advantage she put them in nursery. Admittedly both her and SIL have very well paid jobs so not the issue it is for others.
We as GPs have done our bit for the human race and shouldn't feel pressured into taking on too much in the way of childcare.

My children's grandparents provided childcare extremely rarely and only at their behest; it was never an expectation on my part.
When my grandson was born my daughter moved closer to me so that I could be on hand, but she was unexpectedly widowed shortly afterwards. I left my job the same day and for three years we co-parented my grandson. My husband also took some time off work when needed. By the time she remarried and had her second child she had moved too far away for me to provide regular childcare, but we still have the grandchildren for two weeks at Easter, a couple of weeks in the summer holidays and during health crises as my son-in-law often works away and my daughter has a very demanding full time job.

I’m older than some of you seem to be, but to me the natural progression is that the adult children look after their parents, not the parents looking after their adult children’s children.