Re-assurance and advice needed re granddaughters behaviour

Ih so agree radicalnan The needs of the children seem to come last . I realise people have to work so we do need to overhaul what we offer children . The nursery my GS goes to have a £5 fine per minute of lateness ,yes really ! I suppose it does stop people being late

Most children in reception are absolutely exhausted by the end of the autumn term (and the teachers too according to what I was told!).
It must be awful to watch all the other little ones go home with their mummies at 3.30 and know you have to go to after-school club and sometimes be the only one there.
I know that breakfast clubs and after-school clubs are a good idea and useful for working parents - my DGC go occasionally, but every day for a reception aged child is rather a lot.

DGS never slept at nursery - couldn't understand why they all had to lie down on little beds and could never fall asleep. However, I presume he rested and looked at a book.

I do feel for the little ones, our youngest is sometimes at school from 8am until 5.30 or so. During the school holidays they have to go to holiday club, which is in the school, youngest doesn't seem to mind but eldest started refusing point blank.

Lots of sound advice already, but please do mention this behaviour to the child's parents, not as a complaint, of course, but as something that is puzzling and worrying you a little.

To me it sounds like tiredness and sibling jealousy. I know I would have simply hated anything as inane as after school club, I just wanted home to play with my dolls at her age.

This definitely sounds like exhaustion to me. In some ways it is a compliment, in that she can express her feeling to you. She is too little to articulate them and is expressing them in the only way she knows how.

I would not mention it to the parents, firstly because it is like telling tales. Secondly because is might sound like a criticism.

Lots of us Grans are appalled at the amount of time small children seem to spend away from parents. Most of us have the wisdom not to mention it.

Well so far everyone including the OP has wondered about reasons to do with everything except the people and place the little girl is saying she doesn't want to go with or to. We've talked about her sibling, her after school club, her blood sugar, tiredness etc etc.

Is it worth asking her straight out "why don't you want me to pick you up and take you to my house?" just in case it is actually something to do with the experiences with you and in your home that is worrying her in some way? Not saying anyone's doing anything wrong, but it could be something the little girl is imagining might happen in your house and if you got straight to the point you might be able to set her mind at rest.

I agree with those who mention the new sibling, poor little girl has to cope with complicated feelings, plus starting school. After-school clubs are often difficult for the reception children - it’s a long day, rarely run by their teacher, so they have to get to know other adults. Many of her classmates will go home and often all ages of children will be in together - often bossy ones! One of my granddaughters was unhappy on the 2 nights she stayed, but cheered up when joined 2 years later by little sister!
Also as many have said a bit more loving attention from Mum and Dad required!

My 4 year old granddaughter is exhausted after school too. We collect her at 3.30 which seems a long day. She goes swimming after school one day a week which is perhaps too much for her although she just about copes with that.

But in my experience, (as a mother and ex-teacher) reception children find it very, very hard in their first term at school, then towards spring, it gets easier and easier. By the summer term they pretty much take it in their stride.

So hopefully kaycee your granddaughter will be coping better soon.

I am interested by the 'talka bout it / don't mention it' dilemma. So much depends both on the relationship you have with the parents, and how likely they are to be able to change things around. You certainly don't want to stir things up if there is no chance of change, and you just make them feel worse.

My son & d-i-l have managed to sort out their hours so each collect from school one day a week.
I wondered (and this has so many variables!) if you would be able to do 2 days a week for 3 weeks, then the other GPs, when they stay could do those 2 days once a month. I know that, at a similar distance, I wouldn't want to do twice a week, but might manage if I got a week off every month. However, with whatever needs to happen during school holidays, and other commitments, it might not be do-able.

When you have read and digested all these comments, you might be able to think of a time (as suggested by mostlyharmless) when you would expect your dear GD to be coping better. And that might set a time scale for speaking to her parents. That doesn't mean ignoring her needs, but it does mean setting them alongside others.

In the meantime, you are her rock.

Readymeals

Kaycee says she takes her DGD back to the child's own house after school:
I take her to her house which is just down the lane - usually stop at the swings first.

I do hope it settles down and your grand daughter is happier soon. Lots of very positive ideas and suggestions here.

I agree with many of the posters that very young children today seem to be at school and the after school clubs for far too long ... a lot really do get very tired, and could do with relaxing, pottering and cuddling time after school, but with so many parents themselves trapped into working longer and longer hours that for many children, I can’t really see how this can change.

We are very lucky that we have all arranged after school pickup for my 4 3/4 year old dgd - her parents, other granny and I do a flexible pick up ‘rota’, so that she can go home at 3.15 every day. Quite a lot of travelling for us two grannies but we all felt it was worth it, and we are all in the very fortunate position of being able to organise our jobs, etc, to manage it.

Good luck, hope all improves soon. ?

Offer her food, a sandwich, fruit, biscuits as soon as she gets to your house. My grandson easily gets upset, angry, or bad tempered when he is hungry. I have learnt to feed him regularly. He is seven now.

Thank you all for your input. Yes I will take time to read and digest. On the milk bottle issue I'm not a fan but keep my own counsel over most things. It started when her baby sister was taken into hospital very ill. She had a baby Annabelle doll and asked for a dummy. The compromise was bottle in the evening when dad went to the hospital and it just sort of slid into the routine as these things do. I'm relaxed about it knowing things invariably sort themselves. In fact last week I brought her a Peppa Pig mug and over the last few days she has asked for her milk in it. I will actually take a small snack in my pocket as our trip to the swings can sometimes take a while - thank you.
We have discussed doing another day a week but really feel we don't want to commit to that - does that make me a bad granny? The other grandparents have a 2-3 hour journey so they cannot do anymore.
We have a good relationship with my son and DiL but I don't want to make a big deal out of it - they feel guilty enough as it is, the ever present guilt trip parents are on!. Hopefully my DiL can pick her up one day a week and they are going to work it so my son picks up the baby and mum collect GD before that to spend some time with her before they arrive - not always possible but hopefully enough to give her time alone with mum.
Actually Readymeals I might try asking her why she doesn't want us to pick her up - even if I might not like the answer.
It feels good to share ones worries and get other peoples ideas. I suppose that the beauty of a forum.

Imo, kaycee, you've received a lot of good advice here. As far as talking to the parents, as long as you have the violence under control, I don't think you need to say anything. If it gets worse and you find you can't calm her anymore, then I think you would have to let them know. They would have a right to know, really, to get a chance to do something about it.

Also, are they aware that she doesn't like the afterschool club? They also have a right to know this, imo. They deserve a chance to make other arrangements or find a way to help her look at it differently (like "You were the only one today! Cool! You got to have everything to yourself!")

Is there any chance that mum could cut down a bit on her working hours for a few years. These early years with our children are so precious and pass so quickly, perhaps it's worth being a bit poorer or nor upgrading the car or going on that foreign holiday every year.

How patronising maybe mom is working to help pay the mortgage, electricity, gas, water, council tax, children’s clothing, shoes or food ??.

Maybe mom would like nothing more than to be able to pick her daughter up from school

Kaycee I could of written this myself, 2 years further on now and much more settled, don't take it personally, just a little person trying to deal with a lot of big changes x

Very good posts from everyone.

Thank you Eglantine & persistentdonor- hope you have something left for yourself PD

Turning to next page...

I agree quizqueen

I really think you should speak to the parents and ask them not to let on to your GD you've told them, only not telling her so as to not hurt her feelings about you. I would want to now if it was my child as it is indicating that something is very wrong and the little girl is very unhappy! Having said that, wouldn't it be great if just that little snack in your pocket for her Kaycee, on the way to the park, is all it needs to calm her. But still, something needs to be done about her long hours away from home and mum & dad and baby sister.

When my lovely 3.5 year old GS is tired his behaviour can just go to pot. He just doesn't know what to do with himself, and gets into trouble for doing things he knows quite well will get a bad response. This has been largely evident as they (he is a twin) have recently started not regularly settling to a daytime nap. I think this may be the same for the OP's GD. And low blood sugar too can contribute.

I think that children who are looked after (by whoever, after school clubs, childminder or grandparents) must be missing their mum and home at that age. I really think that a smaller income and the reassurance of mum at the school gates is not to be sneered at. What about school holidays? Who has them then? Parents who both work usually have 5 weeks worth of holidays which doesn't amount to much in the life of a child. They have no real concept of time and parents can often be a bit ratty after work as they have shopping to do, an evening meal to make, another child to collect and get ready for bath and bed. When did it become imperative for both parents to work and abdicate responsibility for their own children's upbringing? They are missing out on such a rewarding time which all the money and material possessions in the world, can never replace.
I've been a paid nanny (in my later years) and most of those children regressed to childish behaviour if allowed to do so. Thumb sucking and clinginess were two outward signs. I felt heartily sorry as their parents were never home before 8pm when one of the boys was in bed, and then they had no time or energy to dmsit and lusten to their child's day. Too busy on laptop or permanently ringing mobile to give a real cuddle or having to prepare dinner.
I feel utterly sorry for people in this situation.

Sorry. Should read 'sit and listen'

I agree Gabriella I know two couples with little C, they both work full time, C in nursery from 1yr old, after school clubs and for school holiday times. They both have big houses and go on wonderful exotic holidays. I would rather have a smaller house and go on holiday to Dorset or the like, then have the money saved to stay at home or have a part time job and put the C care first, bringing them up myself, collecting them from school etc.

Kaycee - I was interested in your comment about guilt on the part of parents who have to "farm out" their children and children duties. It is very hard.

I am amazed that the other GPs travel 2-3 hours to do one pick up a week! - I do not think I would agree to that - it really sounds a bit much.

Good luck with this tired little lass

Kaycee. You're going to have to tread very carefully because if you say anything it could alienate you from the parents and result in you not seeing your GD, but as you say the ferocity of the rage is worrying and from personal experience I can tell you it needs looking at. It can, with professional help be diagnosed but I don't envy you're predicament.