Fair shares

You are right, SparklyGrandma, no one should have to put up with violence, be it mental or physical.
Unfortunately, for those of us of the older generation, a woman’s place is always in the wrong!

sluttygran you shouldn't feel guilty for leaving a violent husband. I left a violent husband 30 years ago, before there were refuges he was working up the violence scale and I believe might have killed me leaving my son with no parents.

I still get criticism in the family about having left him. I don't say anything back but do think to myself ''well would you rather I was dead''.

We live in the UK not some backward country, women shouldn't have to wait until they are nearly killed to leave a violent husband.

I think not much has changed due to years, but people keep on where GM is, more now than before.

Is part of the reason grandparents roles have changed over the years because we as grandparents want it to? I am desperate to takeover childcare when my dil finally returns to work after her maternity leave. I have been excited about it since I found out she was pregnant. Dil mother feels exactly the same. With the exception of one, all of my friends who have childcare responsibilities do so because they want to, and they enjoy the special bond it gives them with their dgc (although some do sometimes feel like they’ve taken on a little too much)

What a nasty judgemental lot you have in your local 'mummy groups' gummybear! - and how things have changed in 30 years!

I went back to work part time when my younger child was 4 and met disapproval from quite a number of mothers in my social group, who were convinced that my DC would suffer as a result of my 'neglect'.

I have never been well enough to help with my DGC and so I have missed out on such a lot, all except the guilt bit. DDIL told me recently that the GC think it is great that they always know where I am and are happy that I always have time to talk or play or read with them. Clearly there are bonuses to be had in all situations so that is a real blessing.

My own DM said to me a similar thing to the above post about the two boxes marked Guilt and Worry and told me they will never go away but they become/are very different through the years along the path of life. It is just life isn't it! It is very like the gift of empathy which is very painful at times but I still wouldn't be without it.

That's ridiculous, gummybears, to "shame" you for your parents' attitude.
I think it's mean of your parents, tho, if they refuse help they could give, in a serious emergency.
Still, I suppose if they are not child-friendly people it might be best all round for them not to get involved.

Absolutely nothing wrong with staying home Gummy. I stayed at home with mine when they were little & have no regrets. I was lucky that financially I was able to do so & appreciate that is not the case for everyone ( or of course the choice they would make). I returned to full time work when my youngest was 4. My view is that we are a long time working & to enjoy our children whilst we can.

Part of the reason I stopped going to "mummy groups" was the total shaming I recieved because my parents refuse to babysit including in serious emergencies.

(Also being shamed for choosing to stay at home with them, but that's a different issue)

You ladies are right that there is now a huge expectation that you are 'entitled' to some sort of relief parenting by your own parents. I have been interrogated at length so often about when do I get "me time" or a rest. Come the autumn, I will have three under three. Not much rest to be had!!

I don't personally feel its your parents' responsibility to pick up the added strain of your family planning decisions, but what do I know, after all I stay at home...

The role of grandparents in relation to childcare has changed drastically over the last 20 years or so due to many more women going back to work & the extortionate cost of childcare.
I have 5 children, work full time & my eldest DD who has DGD lives 250 miles away so any help I can offer is limited.
I don't feel guilty but would like to help more, especially with babysitting etc.
All of my friends (literally without exception) who live locally to their children help out with childcare, as has been said that would have been unheard of when mine were younger.

Well said

MissAdventure, it doesn't change with two. I also do not want to do anything and everything for my children. We see the dire affects of that too often in threads on GN. Parents who have done anything and everything for their children and ended up with selfish, unloving and demanding monsters and don’t know why.

As well as loving my family I have a very busy and interesting life beyond them and while I will always respond in an emergency - we lived with DD for 2 months after her accident, plus after all her further operations and treatments. I expect them to live their own lives. They are grown-up and should be independent.

When we were my children's age, with a family of small children, it would never have occurred to us to ask for our parents to help us in any way, except in the direst emergency. I see no reason why that should be different for my own children.

I’d have felt very guilty if I hadn’t looked after my own children, but I don’t feel guilty about my grandchildren. It’s their parents’ job to look after them, not mine. Grandparents have never looked after grandchildren in my family, except in an emergency, and even then it’s more likely to have been aunts or uncles providing the care.

When did it become the norm (as it seems to be according to this thread) to expect grandparents to provide regular childcare? It seems unfair to me - we’re the wrong generation.

I'm also programmed for guilt if I can't help them both. Yesterday was a good example. I always pick up my son's children every afternoon and take them home. But yesterday my DD called in a fluster to ask " could I go and pick hers up, take DG to horse riding lessons and stay until she got home ". Both she and her husband had work responsibilities that they couldn't get out of. I couldn't bear to say no, so I tied myself into knots to achieve my aims. Picked up my son's children early from school and then drove us all for an hour to pick up DD's two, took DG2 to horse riding, back to DD's place and fed everybody, and when she finally got home at 8pm I bundled DS's children into the car and drove an hour back to deliver them home to Dad. My husband says I am mad, but I'm hard wired to bend over backwards for them . I don't have any great interests or hobbies , I just have my family and I wouldn't be without them. Like you I feel bad if I can't help . I think that mothers and grandmothers are sisters under the skin when it comes to guilt !

I agree. I thought the 'guilt is vanity' remark utterly unhelpful and pretty smug to boot

I've never felt guilt, but maybe that's just having the one child?
But if I couldn't or didn't want to do something then I'd just say no.

Feelingmyage55 I totally agree! I couldn't and wouldn't omit the "sorry" from my response when I have to say "I'm sorry I can't manage that this time." I'm afraid I don't quite follow what people mean when they say we shouldn't say "sorry". I feel sorry after all! Also I think Beejo's friend was spot on! Also it's not just becoming a mother that brings these two. I have friends who could not have give birth to their own children but are equally devoted to their family and friends, and seem to be responsible for a lot - for Christmas for example. When one did this after she had been in hospital, I asked her if one of the other members of the family could take over that year and she simply said " If I didn't do it, we wouldn't see each other." So it's definitely a female, (that can mean some men do it) nurturing, caring thing that leads to feeling guilty if we can't help everyone. Even though we know it's not our fault! But when were emotions logical? I do think it comes with the massive amount of love we feel. We genuinely want to do anything for them! Of course, it's impossible to do everything, so somehow we just have to find a balance.... It's good to talk about things though and good to know from a friend that we have done our best and need not feel guilty!

It has never even occurred in conversation with friends, catholics or not.

MOnica, great to hear you don't have the Catholic guilt thing. I'm not a Catholic but all my (ex) Catholic and current Catholic friends talk and laugh about it, a lot.

Sorry, being awkward again. I am a catholic, convent (several) educated and all that and I don't have the guilt thing. I have only ever known one catholic who did. I hadn't even heard about it until some people who weren't catholics told me about it after I left school.

I understand those feelings of being pulled in several directions at once and how hard it is to say no to requests of help.

DD1 asked if I could drop little one off at a party on Thursday as she had a work commitment she couldn't get out of. I had to tell her we wouldn't be around as we had plans but I felt awful in not being able to help out. Daughter was fine and understood we wouldn't be in the vicinity but I do hope she can resolve the problem and little one gets to her party. It's been playing on my mind.

I understand how hard it is to say no to AC when they need help. Part of me wants to be SuperGran and take it all on, but as OH says, we too have an active life and didn't get half as much help and support from our parents when we were raising our children. He has a point but loyalties are so torn.

M0nica, I am filled with envy. I’d love to feel like you, and not feel unnecessarily guilty, but I’m another with a guilt complex. Hats off! ?

Wish I had your problem!

And if you are brought up as a Catholic sodapop the guilt is even greater. We are born feeling guilt for everything lol x

Just because I reserve my feeling of guilt for something that is morally wrong does not mean I lack compassion or that I care any less, far from it. Also about grumpy old fogies sounding off why not do as. I do? Some forums I am interested in and they run well, others don’t so I leave it. We are all different in how we put our views across.