Sleep routines and destructive behaviour

My house was full of smoke alarms so that would not have been an issue and I could quick release it anyway! Different times, as I said it was in a book that was very popular in those days. It did work and at that point I was bloody desperate, 350 miles away from home on my own trying to cope ..... and probably with PND thinking back although wouldn't have admitted that at the time.

Maybe that is why she is now trying to commit suicide - 9 times now, as she is so bloody unhappy - coping with that on my own too as getting help is virtually impossible.

It's a difficult time for you madeinYorkshire we all do the best we can at the time so don't blame yourself for your daughter's subsequent problems. As you say things were very different then. Don't be too hard on yourself. I hope your daughter gets the help and support she needs.

Oh madeinyorkshire....please no. It might have been ok for you, although perhaps you could ask her at some time if she has any memories of it. My siblings and I grew up in a very dysfunctional family where our father laid down laws about bed time...basically we were up in our beds until 'released'. No actual locks but a huge fear of leaving the room. I have so many memories of sobbing myself to sleep when unwell (I had severe tonsillitis regularly until the were removed aged 8).
I think there are a few tips...never make going to bed a punishment. The bedroom is only about sleeping and being comfortable. Allow quirks such as door ajar or nightlights etc. I have GC who have opposite requests, one has door open t'other not and woe betide you if you get in wrong. They need to learn to resettle themselves, so if they wake they should just be gently put back with little interaction. As they get a little older they can help choose a colour for a quilt, which cuddly toy etc etc. Also a really ridged bedtime regime - same every night so it becomes a reassuring habit. Story telling is so important and can be a good time to have reassuring chats about things that bother them as they get older.

Oh dear Madeinyork what a horrible situation for you I can only say I hope you get the help your daughter needs as soon as possible that’s a horrible situation for you to deal with alone

sorry to read about your daughter madeinyorkshire. If it's any consolation, my. mother tied my bedroom door in exactly the way you describe. I was 7 or 8 and it seems, kept going downstairs to say it was too early to go to bed because it wasn't dark. Mum was pregnant, I shared the bedroom with my four year old sister so I was disrupting her sleep as well. Dad was often working nights, or away on courses during that period. Mum must have been so tired and isolated, we'd moved to a small village where she knew no one. One night, I pulled so hard at the door the cord holding it broke and I damaged my toe nail when the door ran over it. Mum cried, I cried we all cried. She never tied the door again and I do hope I didn't continue to pester....

I do hope your daughter gets help, it's a dreadful situation for both of you.

I always try to remember that little children have no other way of communicating their distress than by being disruptive, they don't have either the vocabulary or the psychology to voice concerns.

In addition, the 4 year old is coping with the trauma of school - that alone is a big thing. And you may have heard of 'The Terrible Twos' when children around that age just seem to go off the rails for a while - fortunately it doesn't last.

You are doing a magnificent job Paul and wife and to heck with what the 'health professionals' think - do whatever it takes to give you all a restful night.

Please don't slate made in Yorkshire I can empathise and sometimes you can be at your wits end when faced with screaming kids all day long I am safety conscious and aware of children's safety in event of a fire just so people know I went overboard and have a smoke alarm in every room and two emergency exits upstairs but rightly or wrongly people are voicing what works for them I love you all for the help but remember hopefully we are all here to help each other sermon over

You are amazing grandparents! I vote for the one grandparent sleeps in the child’s room and alternates every night. At least you will be getting a good nights sleep every other day. The grandparent who got to sleep undisturbed gets to do the morning breakfast/school run, leaving the tired grandparent to have a lie in. Childproof the room as much as possible, if possible put most of the toys out of reach and only have a few out...teach them that the toy boxes come down/out at a certain time and set an alarm clock for when this happens. Just leave out a few sturdy books and soft toys for quiet play if they get up too early. You could also try cutting out any afternoon naps they might have and instead introduce reading time or TV time. If they no longer have naps then you could try putting them to bed a bit later (although I know you’re probably watching that clock trying to hang on in your exhaustion until bedtime as it is!). You can also try those projector night lights that project rotating images on the ceilings and play music that they sell for babies..they work for older kids (and even adults) too!