Ungrateful daughter

I have every sympathy for the OP and how awful her situation is and how worried she is.

BUT

I despair of these grandparents who give their children everything they want then get upset when having brought up their children to see their parents and their purses as the answer to their every problem, then get upset when that is just what the children do.

Your DD has never stood on her own two feet because you have not let her. Why do you pay her debts, Why do you pay for her car and phone. Do you really do that for your grand children. If you think about it, the best thing for your grandchildren would have been for you to have pulled the rug from under your daughter's feet years ago and told her to wise up and do what every one else does and provide for her own family.

You have left it very late and it is going to be very difficult to do it now. Your daughter will play every tune in the repertoire of those who indulge in emotional blackmail, to make you keep coughing up the readies regardless of the cost to you. But you must tell her that the Bank of Mum and Dad has gone bankrupt and there will be no more money forthcoming for phone, car, debts, or, I regret to say, clothes, school equipment or anything else the children need. After a year or two you could safely start buying the children things, and there will always be Christmas and birthdays. But for your daughter the best love you can give her is tough love.

You feel like walking away, that is the first sensible reaction you have had on this issue. You must do just that.

Keep coming to us for support, we will be there.

Autumnsun I wasn't being sarcastic and did not mean to upset you. I avoid sarcasm and try to post honestly and fairly. Ofcourse you are entitled to your view as we all are. I just thought that CrazyH was trying to encourage the OP to not get upset at individual posts which she may not agree with or feel relevant, when generally posters are trying to help. She hasn't come back which I agree is a shame. I hope she finds the support she needs.

Madgran77

Well if the op has gone it just shows how, stressed she was but also wasn't going to listen to people telling her she thinks more of one child than another!! Good god woman that is the ultimate insult you can give to any mother! She knows she's giving more to the one in most need but is the one who is the most ungrateful so how anyone come to that conclusion I really don't know that's just a double whammy for that poor lady & unforgivable & Yes that is my view as you sarcastically put it which I'm allowed to have thank you same as you are

Ready meals also good advice

Hetty58 good advice

Goodgran, I'd favour the gradual approach, for the sake of the grandchildren as well as your daughter. You can be firm without being hard on her. Some children can be pleasant and sail through life with little support from their parents. Others just find things very tough and maybe have more challenging behaviour and personalities.

Perhaps your son had easier opportunities to make 'good choices' or a more sensible outlook. I have four children, all very different and it's tempting to compare them - but grossly unfair - as they just had different luck and life chances.

One has been a particular worry, personality-wise and another had all the bad luck with health, including cancer. I've helped those two a lot, financially and with childcare.

I've given instructions to redress the financial balance with the other two, when I'm gone and the house is sold, to prevent any future resentment between them. They all understand the situation.

I feel it's very important to say that you love them. You can say that you don't like their behaviour. I wouldn't expect gratitude, though, just hope for understanding and calmer waters.

Has the OP gone?

That seems very unfair on CrazyH...in my view Autumnsun

Hi goodgran mostly good advice here. except 'hi there. paddy Ann gramaretto & crazy h' none very supportive in my view much love take care

I think the best plan is as suggested above . Say your money is almost gone . Don’t sell your home . Sit her down and tell her enough is enough and if she can’t help in every way they will have to find alternative accommodation . In every way Mean just that from washing ironing cooking . The lot . If she says so you are chucking us out say no I am giving you a chance to help me change the intolerable situation I am in ,

So many Grandmothers are in similar situations. It is sad.
I don't know why DD and DDIL think they have the right to take advantage of their DC's DGrandmother

You’re in a difficult situation you want to help but demands are too great and there is your son to consider as well, what provision have you made for him?.

I have a feeling your daughter will bleed you dry, leaving nothing for your own retirement or care needs nor for her brother. She knows that she can get away with being difficult and demanding, it’s time her wings were clipped.

By all means downsize and look at your likely wealth at that stage and divide it between your son and daughter and your own needs. Give her only what you have set aside, a fixed sum and let her know what you are doing, given her past record she will react badly but you must stick by the decision. Make it clear she is getting cash in advance of any inheritance and change your will to that effect, keep an account of what she has had, she sounds a monster but stick to your guns.

We are looking at putting the house on the market to replenish our savings.
Please, please don't do that! Or at least not until you actually want to downsize/move for yourselves. Because inevitably she will ramp up her behaviour in response to the idea that you have more cash that you should therefore be giving to her. Better to leave the savings low for the moment so that at least she can't argue with 'there is no money left'.

For the rest - 'if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got'. That applies to both you and your daughter. You have always bailed her out, so she has always come back to you to bail her out again. She has always got you to bail her out by using emotional blackmail, so she will continue to use emotional blackmail, it works.

So you need to change your behaviour for there to be any reason for her to change hers. And the first thing is that you need - NEED - to stop financing her. You pay her rent and car? That has to stop. You said "We have told her that we can no longer pay her rent. So that's a big step forward for us." - please do not waver, whatever claims and threats she throws at you. And she will - worked before for her, why wouldn't she? I t will be difficult, I know. But you have to hold firm. Think of it as a childish tantrum (which in truth it is). The child wants the sweeties now, the adult knows whilst one wouldn't hurt too many would lead to the dentist. So the adult says NO. She needs to stop abdicating responsibility for herself onto you, and she will never do that until you refuse. It's the only viable long-term solution.

I would firmly close the doors to the Bank of Mom and Dad. You need your money for your future, your daughter is working. It is very hard to say 'NO' sometimes. I did to my daughter and she went off in a huff, I just waited and she has slowly come round. You can still look after your grandchildren, but you don't have to keep putting your hand into your pocket. Good luck.

"Wash your hands of her"

I understand this reaction, Flowerofthewest. But if the OP does that, she'll have to be prepared to possibly lose contact w/ the GC, as well. Some GPs are willing to take that risk, others not so much.

Excellent, thought-provoking post, Sleepygran!

Great "in a nutshell" advice, mauraB!

Don't look after her kids, that's her and her ex's duty. Don't give her anything. You are making your own problems by giving and receiving disrespect back. Don't use the "grand children" excuse then cry about the end result.

Well I can understand just how you got in this position but it isn't too late to get out of it. Just be firm and stop paying for one thing at a time. Tell her that you are both getting older and strapped for cash and she is an adult. You both had to stand on your own two feet when you were young and she has to do the same. There might be tantrums and tears before bedtime but try and be firm. Not easy. Take care.

In hindsight, you should have refused to subsidise her in the past as there has been no gratitude. She will drain you of money and then offer you no support in your old age. Stand up to her and tell her she is a bully and you are done with helping her. Bullies only bully people who allow themselves to be bullied.

You can still help your grandchildren by just buying things for them direct, not giving the mother the money to buy things. Leave anything you have left in your will to the grandchildren with a proviso it can't be touched till they are 25 so your daughter can't get at it. I'm sorry but she only behaves as she does because you let her, so you changing your behaviour is the only way to improve things.

You seem to be funding a awful lot of your DDs expenses. If she is working has she checked het entitlement to any financial support. Would she be prepared to go over her finances with you just to see where the money goes. TV packages can cost an awful lot each month as can phone accounts. I was helping a struggling family and found GiffGaf offered monthly deals from £5 a d you can vary the deal from month to month depending on useage. Family saved a fortune on phone alone. Your DD does need to take responsibility for her life. What would she do if you didn't have funds or a house to sell to help her out. What will she do when all of those are gone. Sorry , but a stern 'this cannot go on' is needed and she has to be made to draw up a plan for budgeting according to her means, not yours.

People treat you how you allow them to.
My 5 adult children and stepson have NEVER taken me for granted. They have more respect and know that I wouldn't allow it.
To pay 11000 debt off for her. ..pay her phone bills etc. She will never show respect. Wash your hands of her

Goodgran.
There's an organisation called Step Change Debt Charity, which helps people who have got into debt to sort things out. I would suggest that you go via Citizens Advice to help your daughter make the first steps to sorting her finances out. There maybe other things she's may qualify for as well as what she gets at the moment and they will be able to go through her finances with her and put her wise.
I am wondering if the children spend any time with their dad, sleepovers or days out or financial support? If your daughter and yourselves are the only ones sharing the care of the children then that is not fair on anyone, and he is not only missing out but the children are too, plus it would give your daughter a break as well. The £11,000 pounds is a big chunk of money to pay her debts, and this is were organisations such as Step Change would have helped her to make an affordable plan and contact people on her behalf to stop creditors hounding her. It is a non profit making organisation, do go via CAB though as there are others with a similar name to this one, and you will be given the correct info from them.
I wouldn't consider selling your property as you could find yourselves struggling at some point if it is to pay for your daughter's outgoings.
Perhaps she could change both her car and phone to less expensive ones to use, and that would be a start to a new budget. It won't be easy, she will have to cut back on things she can't afford, and you and your husband have to think about your own financial future as well.

Hi, you need to stop helping her financially especially as she works! Ive had the same problems with my daughter who is 35 and doesnt work due to epilepsy. I suggest telling her to seek advice from one of the debt charities and coming to a payment arrangement. I had to do this in the end as i ended up using my wages to pay her debts! Also, all they do is keep getting into more debt assuming we will bale them out. She tries the emotional blackmail with my granddaughter but you have to stand firm, i know its hard but at the end of the day you have to protect yourself emotionally. I have been disrespected and manipulated for years and have decided enough is enough. Hope this helps

goodgran BPD has been mentioned twice, and I was also thinking that, reading your posts. I have experience of this in my late husband's family, and believe me, however much you give, it will never ever be enough! Perhaps read up on BPD. Even if there is no diagnosis, she is exhibiting long term emotional difficulties, and there is help for families to learn healthy boundaries. She seems to have got stuck as that 15 year old, and your support, financial and in kind, is not helping her to grow up. The risk for you and your DH is that you will become ill, and then your ability to help the GC will be compromised. Please don't sell your house and give her money - she needs a budgeting plan, as others have said. Get yourself some counselling too. Good luck.

Ho goodgran, I sympathise with you! It’s an impossible situation, and your daughter, no matter how much you love her, is very manipulative and knows exactly how to handle you!
I have no idea what to advise you to do, just know that you aren’t alone, and feel free to vent any time!