I don’t know how to handle this, help please

I have just had to read your post through a couple of times to get it right in my head!
By saying that your BiL is not permitted to parent the child, I take it that he is not allowed to discipline her?
The child sounds as if she is desperately confused and wanting constant attention - or there is something going on that you are not aware of that is causing the wetting and other behaviour.
There is nothing old fashioned about expecting a child to behave in a certain manner in certain places. All children need boundaries and this child obviously has none.
As far as your MiL is concerned, I would guess that she wants Isobel to feel she is part of the family. It is hurtful that the pictures of your family have been taken down, but they are only pictures, doesn't mean she loves you all any less.
As far as the fact that this child seems incapable of sharing - many only children have to learn how to do this, it isn't wired in - you only have to watch groups of children at nurseries to learn this!
With the toys, I'd suggest that your children take their own toys to Grannies and you make sure that they are packed up and returned home with you each time. Bit of a nuisance I know and if you spot the child trying to take one of the items home with her, you need to say calmly " X and Y have been very kind sharing their toys with you, but it is now time for them to take them home . You have toys of your own to play with at home, these ones belong to X and Y, they are not yours!" If she starts to scream, have a tantrum, wet herself, take her clothes off or hurt your children, leave.
I don't understand the walking on eggshells but I can fully understand the different way that the MiL treats your children - my own mother did the same with how my son and my brothers twins were treated. I could only put it down to the fact that both of the twins had been seriously ill before their 1st birthday (one had heart surgery, the other had brain surgery) so she cherished them a little bit more.

Wow if l were you l would go somewhere else for advice. What horrible responses. You dont deserve a bashing.
Youve clearly got a good heart. Just mention to your MIL how you feel and work something out about the toys. Sounds as if everyone is readjusting things will settle down. Youve got good foundations, you all like each other, great basis for family harmony.
Dont undervalue your own parenting standards.
Im sure you are doing a grand job

Wow! People are being very judgemental when all you seem to be trying to do is explain to your children why they are seeing differences.. ?

With both my parents and my in-laws, if they have my children a gift I would quite often leave at their house. It certainly saved me having to take lots of things to amuse them every time I visited!

I think your MIL is a little wary of disciplining Isabel because her son isn’t even allowed to as yet, and she won’t want to cause friction between him and his partner.

Isabel’s wetting could well be because of all the changes going on in her life. If it were me, I would keep reassuring her that she’s fine and cared for while with yourselves (I’m sure you already do, but persevere as it will work eventually ?)

If I were in your shoes, I would just explain the wetting and behaviour to my children by saying that Isabel is with a new family and might be a little scared or worried and if they keep being kind to her then it will help her feel less scared.

Explain that when they aren’t at Nannies and Isabel is, she probably plays with the toys and doesn’t know that they were gifts to them from Nanny. Just say that now that Nanny has Isabel visiting as well then there are more children than toys!, and that they are very kind to share their toys with her.

I too was a parent who made sure my children were polite and well behaved while out, and I don’t understand any parent who wouldn’t expect that.

I think if this situation continues it comes down to your BIL to sit down with his partner and explain the difficulties he has when not able to correct Isabel. I’m sure as someone who cannot have children that he’s desperate to make this work and doesn’t want to shake the tree just in case it affects the relationship.

Good luck! I’m sure with a little more patience and reassurance things will get better.

Why on earth would your MIL take downs pics of your DH and your children and replace them with pics of Isabel? I’d definitely question that with her.

Also, ignore nasty comments on here regarding your parenting. You sound very level headed to me and considerate. Bringing children up to have good manners and have consideration for others is to be applauded.

As for the toy situation - if those toys have been bought for your children then they belong to your children. If MIL prefers to keep them at her house for them to play with when they are there that’s fine; I do that with some of the toys I buy my GC. However, it must be very confusing for your children to see Isabel taking them home with her when they have been gifted to them. Also, if Isabel is pushing your little one off a ride on toy she should be told quite firmly that is something she isn’t allowed to do.

The problem here isn’t Isabel but the tippytoing on eggshells around her mother by the sounds of it.

I’d have a word with DH to see if he’ll say something to MIL and carry on bringing up your children in way you see fit. Sounds like you’re doing an excellent job.

I know one of my DGC really took bad when new member ( children ) joined the family . She asked me if her uncle and aunt , whom she loves , would still be her uncle and aunt now they had new children to love. This really bothered her and she just was not sure of her place in the family any more.

Sometimes a poster reveals things over time that allow regular readers to have a greater understanding of new difficulties that arise. Unfortunately this means that when a new thread is posted some people will be aware of the 'backstory' and others are not.

notanan2 your last post is spot on in many ways I think, but there is a whole back story that puts a very different slant on what's possibly going on here - and of course without that information we have to respond in ways that seem obvious to us, but cannot take into account information that we don't have.

I dont think that Is mother is necessarily doing anything odd. If the DB is regularly caring for I it would not be unreasonable for Is mother to ask him to maintain the consistancy of her rules when DB is in sole charge of I.

This does not seem to apply to the OP who is expected to have no authority or say whatsoever once her children are in GPs company.

Its the OPs situation, not Is mum's, that is unusual.

There are a WORLD of options in between doormat and NC. E.g. leaving the ILs to the DH to deal with. Meeting out and about rather than at OPs house where she is undermined etc

Hello, Muffinthemoo! How nice to see you. Your baby is a year old now? How did that happen!

I don't have much advice re your situation, except to say that your mil sounds very odd. Maybe this is a chance for you to teach your children that people do indeed act in strange ways and that life sometimes just isn't fair.

The comments, too, have got me thinking about sharing. It's interesting how some of us insist that children should share their toys. As adults, we rarely share our toys. My dh wouldn't take it too kindly if I suggested he shared his fancy car with our next door neighbours, for instance! Children sometimes get attached to a particular toy and it's understandable they will get upset if it's taken away.

I think, if you don't want to reduce contact with the MIL, that you could encourage your children to regard any gifts she gives them as 'community' gifts and not specifically theirs. Or ask for monetary gifts for them in future.

Anyway, lovely to 'see' you again! X

I’m not sure that the situation sounds good in lots of ways, Isobels mother sounds like a control freak, obviously she can parent as she sees fit, but how can her partner be expected to cope with Isobel if he’s not allowed any input.

I’ve heard about this weird arrangement over presents before, it doesn’t make any sense, if you give someone a present, it then belongs to them, to do whatever they like with. She also sounds very controlling.

If it were me, I’d give the whole lot of them a wide berth.

I really disagree with those of you who think OP is "peacekeeping" by having no boundaries. There is nothing paeceful about these dynamics!

The alternatives do NOT begin and end with going no contact. There is a whole spectrum in between in which boundariea can be set. MIL doesnt have to agree with them

Why take it so seriously though (and encourage your children to)? There's always the option of reducing visits to MIL. Meeting in a public place is easier, maybe for dinner or a walk. Inviting them to your house means that your 'house rules' should apply. Visits to MIL can be short!

Children are very keen on fairness. They have to learn, however, that the world is not fair, the earlier the better. Rather than enter a control battle, just teach them to laugh things off by being relaxed and showing good humour. My kids called my awkward mother 'Silly Nan' on the quiet!

Mother in law sounds an arse and her son an enabler. What a toxic mix. I really feel for you muffin I’d have had to have it out before now! It’s not Isobel’s fault that mother in law is favouring her. It’s a control issue by the woman and you are on the receiving end.

I think you are a saint.
?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

P.S. Could you not, this Christmas, keep your children's presents? If you are at MIL's, just be assertive and put them in a bag ready to take home with you? If MIL is at your house, just say something like, 'I'd prefer the presents to stay here - the children would love to play with them today!'

Worth a try ...?

Your MIL's behaviour seems very odd to me. Firstly, keeping presents that she has bought for her grandchildren at her house. Secondly, taking down photos of her son and your children and replacing them with pictures of Isobel - who she has known for only one year. (And now allowing Isobel to take home toys which are not hers.) Plus the fact that she allows Isabel to get away with things that your children are told off for!

And it sounds as if your husband does not like to hear his parents criticised in any way. So you haven't got him on-side.

Could you speak to your MIL about this - tell her how her behaviour is hurting your children - or would that cause friction?

If you can't, then in your situation I would distance myself and my children a little bit. Don't visit so often, etc.

I feel sorry for Isabel - she is obviously a little girl who has been damaged in some way. But that's not your problem! Neither is your BIL's. Leave him to sort it out.

And do stick to your guns regarding your children's behaviour. You have standards - keep them up!

I echo grannyactivist. Well done, you!

Hello muffinthemoo - it's been a while since we've heard from you so it's likely that some of the posters on this thread are unaware of the difficulties you have previously shared, particularly about dealing with your in-laws.

I think perhaps all you can do with your children is to gently reinforce your own rules and suggest they ask your mother-in-law directly why the rules about taking things from her home seem to have changed.

A 'broken record' approach can help with little ones along the lines of; in our family this is how we behave, but other families do things differently. This kind of reminder simply serves to help very young children to understand that families do things differently without the need to explain why.

And for what it's worth I think you're doing a grand job under very difficult circumstances.

How very strange of your mother in law to give a gift and then insist on it staying there I m afraid that should have never happened in the first place A gift is given with no stipulations at all and I wouldn’t have agreed to that one Not that I ve ever come across it before it sounds very over controlling
As the little one is only 3 in a whole new world suddenly sharing with ‘cousins’ now got a grandmother ‘who isn’t’ and a new father who isn’t allowed to parent I not surprised the little one wets herself and has at that age no idea of the etiquette to not take the offending clothes of in public

Unfortunately I think you should have brought the kids toys and gifts home from day 1 you have bent over too far backwards to placate a rather controlling mother in law and maybe (husband) and you cant undo it now
I m not sure why you are so involved with your brother in law

Whilst you want a big happy family maybe it would be a lot healthier all round to not spend so much of your time at mother in laws and let the children play with other friends’ children more, it all sounds way ‘over familied’

I can see you’re in a difficult position OP and getting a pasting from a particular poster who seems quite obsessed with your situation judging by the number of posts is probably not helping.

It seems like an odd situation. Do you know why your DBiL isn’t allowed to direct her, given that they live together?

In terms of what Isobel is and isn’t allowed to do and explaining that to your children I would just not make a big deal about it and just say something breezily along the lines of ‘because that’s the way it is’ and move on. Young children don’t require an explanation for every single decision made by adults - sometimes ‘because I said so’ is all the justification you need to provide.

Re sharing toys - it’s certainly good to encourage sharing but I don’t think Isobel should be allowed to take them out of your MiLs house. It’s an odd arrangement and one that I would be questioning I think, especially if your MiL isn’t going to intervene when your children’s presents are going walkabout. It’s fine for children to know that they’re welcome to play with other children’s toys but not to take them home.

^ @ mumofmadboys not quizqueen.

I agree with quiz queen.

I do not think posting tips about how to continue to tip toe around the elephants in the room is going to do the OP a kindness..

If your children are not happy with their granny's approach to Isabel i.e. letting her take THEIR toys home with her when they can't, then I suggest they ask her, directly, why she is treating her differently. She may be shocked and review her attitude. They need to tell her it is upsetting them to see THEIR presents given away. Playing and sharing is one thing, someone else taking them home is something else altogether.

I think this is really what you are upset about so she can be the one to explain her behaviour. No one is usually very happy with a grandparent who seems to show favouritism openly.

If Isabel continues to hurt your children and is not corrected by anyone, you will have to consider putting some distance between the families and visit at a different time. I don't know why most replies on this thread are making excuses for bad behaviour. Do not lower your own standards.

Well it sounds pretty serious. An agressive DH. ILs who treat her like she doesnt exist or matter even in her own home, all while children watch (and learn).

Its not just about the gifts, or Isobel. There is something much bigger and more serious going on from the sound of things!

Its very concerning. And its not really about Isobel taking a toy home!

Notanan2 you have made 10 posts on here! I feel as if you are rather laying into muffin a bit! You are repeating yourself!

I agree with FlexibleFriend OP. You cannot explain why your MIL has become inconsistent with the rules in her home, because it is her actions in her home.
It would puzzle any child who carries a sense of what is fair because it is not fair. I don't know how you can answer.
Can you talk to your MIL about this?

While everyone is in your home then it should be your rules.
You can define how all of these people behave while in your home within reason.

I think that Grandparents must go along with what the parents think anyway.
I don't agree with my AC on everything but I always respect that she is their mum.

I think your MIL has caused the problem and that is your best way of resolving it by talking to her but if this is not possible then please do assert yourself more and take the kids presents home with you, stating that if it is right for Isabel then it is right for all.

Special treatment for one child will in the end backfire. I have seen this happen.
No matter what Isabel's set up is she should not be given special favours above the other DGC.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with being a peace keeper. It has some dignity.