OVER INDULGENT PARENTS

Not a grandparent but wanted to offer an explanation of why I parent in this exhausting way.

I remember my form mistress telling me when I was about eleven “Don’t ever put yourself down. The world is full of people eager to do that for you”. Over the years I have realised how right she was.

My children will grow up in a world where no one gives a fig about them. At work they will be readily replaceable, no matter how skilled or professional they become. They will be performance managed to an inch of their lives. In school and university, they will only be a source of income and a set of grades to be managed. Their romantic prospects will be decided in less than three seconds by some individual swiping on a phone according to a sorting algorithm that declares them too short, too fat, too educated, or whatever else some horrible ‘seduction success’ website has determined isn’t desirable in a partner.

The only person in the world that I can know will always love them, always appreciate them for exactly who they are, always accept whoever they grow up into, is me.

I want to be that safe haven in a world that even now, is crueller than even I grew up in.

The whole world is already willing and eager to tell my children that they aren’t special and they don’t matter. I won’t join in with that. To me, they are special, to me they are irreplaceable.

I was raised by a mother to whom I didn’t matter a shit and that is damage that’s not undone, despite how hard I’ve worked on it.

I don’t raise them with “no boundaries” or “endless negotiations”, but the thing I do have to give them that no one else can is my love and attention whilst they are so small. For this tiny window in their lives, they can be and are the centre of someone’s world. I can only hope that this is enough to protect them from a lifetime of a world battering their self esteem.

I am trying to vaccinate them against other people’s cruelty. I don’t know if that will work. All I know is that being raised with cruelty made me and many others defenceless against other cruelties as we grew older.

I worry constantly that I am doing the wrong thing. I can’t know until they are grown if this was the wrong thing to do. But this is my best hope and I work as hard at it as I can.

This is a very difficult topic. Probably we should try to get our children & grandchildren to understand that they should not behave in ways that discomfort others: family, friends or strangers. It's to do with self control. My personal experience though is that through adopting this stance people have treated me like a doormat, because I am so shocked by their behaviour that I don't respond. I'm sorry for the teachers who have to deal with these selfish spoilt children: but it's not the fault of the children of course, it's learnt behaviour. I only hope they have an epiphany in their adult years and realise that kindness to others is everything.

It's a curious phenomenon that when children are indulged, it brings out the worst in their natures. You would think spoiled children would be the happiest in the world, but they are not.

I’ve seen the same with elderly people. My grandmother was overly indulged because everybody was afraid of her throwing a fit. She was the most miserable person I knew. I have very few good memories of her.

I think everyone has to bring up their children in the way they see fit which may not be your way. I try to bite my tongue when the urge to give advice to my DD or SIL comes to the fore. Child rearing advice has changed over the last 30 years. Best wait to be asked and definitely no book should be offered. For every so called parenting guru advising a particular way of bringing up children there is another saying the opposite. Your GC will soon learn life does not revolve around them no matter what their parents do.

Your children and their respective partners are grown up. This means they are old enough to make decisions, whether good or bad in your eyes. It also means they learn the hard way too. None of us ever truly learns from somebody else's mistakes!
All I can suggest is you say nothing, if you still want to be in their lives, but are there to support them along the way. Like taking the children out on your own. This way the children get to see not everybody operates in the same way!

GagaJo, I agree with you. The fashions in parenting styles seem to swing from being incredibly strict to being so over indulgent as to be totally ineffectual. As I said, mine weren't smacked but I did let them know that only one of us was in charge;me! and if I said no, then no amount of whining would change things.

Unfortunately, Loislovesstewie, we teachers can see all too well when children have been allowed to have an over inflated sense of their own importance. Those are the children who disrupt whole lessons, making the rest of the students sit, bored, waiting for the brat's behaviour to be dealt with.

If only parents would realise, over indulging their children will make their lives 10 times harder once they get to school, and realise the whole world does NOT think the sun shines out of their rear end.

It’s always been about the middle ground I was never a strict disciplinarian but I did have boundaries and mine have all grown up in turn to be good parents although they have three totally different ways My eldest has brought hers up very similar to my way maybe a fraction stricter than me but not over the top, my daughter in law has definitely cosseted more and a bit over protective and not allowing the to explore life for themselves so much my youngest has given the most freedom and independence right from them being small and set much less boundaries But they have all grown up good useful people The eldest three have good jobs number 4 is in uni and 5, and 6, in 6 th form, and number 7 in high school and doing well
I never smacked any of my children and my grand kids have never been smacked it feels really alien to me to smack a child I was never smacked so that’s going back to the 40 s in my family
Unless it’s very extreme parenting it all pans out in the end

Sadly nothing my eldest grandaughter is a fully fledged brat, her parents never chastized her when she was naughty it was all cute and funny, well it isnt anymore, she rules the roots, ruined her 13th birthday this month because she didnt want one of her cousins there, her cake got dropped and smashed all over the floor , birthday was cancelled and her mum ( my Dd) apologised to her after it all . Ive spent years telling her she needs boundaries and rules to no avail the younger two are not as bad but have their moments . Itll be wasted words x

I hate that term 'butt out' and I think the OP has gone.

You can only help if your DIL and DS ask for your advice or help.

I am in exactly the same position myself. I realise that it is fashionable to be extremely indulgent towards small children today. My grandson is likewise 4 and has a tantrum every time his mother phones me. We manage 3-4 minutes chat before she rushes off to console him.

I feel she is laying up trouble for herself by spoiling the boy rotten and dread the brutal awaking the little one will have when he goes to school and is forced to realise that the whole world is not going to dance attendance on him.

I bite my tongue, as my advice has not been asked for, and I know my different way of seeing things will cause offence if I voice my opinions.

Sooner or later, your son and daughter-in-law will get tired of running themselves ragged and wonder what has gone wrong. Perhaps you can pick up the pieces when that happens. Right now do nothing.

Not sure what you meant about safeguarding either, sorry.

Sorry painting just came back to this thread and saw your post.
What sussex was suggesting and I was commenting on is that every half term we often get threads started by people who post some relationship question, or start a discussion about school uniforms or the price of plimsoles or some such and loads of GNetters take time to offer their support and help and advice but then the OP never returns again.
When I said time will tell I meant let’s wait and see if this a genuine question from a genuine granny which we will find out if the OP comes back. So none of the things you mention above about aliens etc.

Been watching this going on in my family. Recognise what you mean with the faces if all that is demanded isn't forthcoming and immediately. Now at the stage DGS is causing disruption in class. No give or take, everything has to be his way. Intelligent boy who due to behaviour may miss out on being selected for opportunities in education. Professional help is needed to sort problem out as one parent trying yo take control will just not work if other constantly gives in to demands. So hard to stand by and watch the result of 7 years of indulgence.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Children need love but they also need boundaries for when they encounter others in life. It is doing them a grave disservice to indulge them with the idea that they are the centre of the universe when they are not. Youngsters will need to be able to mix with others and be respectful to educators, friends and employers.

To the sentimentalists on this thread berating the OP, your advice will make the dear children unemployable.

Of course, pointing this out to doting and foolish parents is just asking for trouble. People never forgive others when they, themselves, are in the wrong.

Kathy, I don't think it's a choice between a smack and constant negotiating. Children seem to be primed, to wear down adults with constant demands fueled by a society which is obsessed with material goods.
It takes 2 tough and consistent parents to tough it out.

Not your children...not your problem...I have to remind myself of this many times..if they ask for advice I give it...or otherwise bite my tongue.

Who are we to even consider ourselves to be an authority on parenting. We all make mistakes, there is no perfect parent on this planet, but more importantly people learn from their own mistakes. These children are not in any immediate danger and while we can observe things that we would do differently, we only know and can work with our own truths, on our own path of life.

Love, kindness and support are the things I most valued from my Mother while I was bringing my children up...x

I think the OP has raised some legitimate concerns re her grandchildren. I do think many children are over-indulged and have developed a level of feeling of entitlement that is not good for them or the people looking after or teaching them. I'm not referring to showing love and affection and engaging properly with what a child is saying, or to spending (some) time reading and playing with a child. I mean giving in to unreasonable demands so as to avoid tantrums - just because it's easier, in the short term at least, to do than standing firm.

I do think some of the remarks on here are rather rude - such as telling to OP to "butt out". Also, saying "it's not your problem" and (disgracefully I think) "they're better off without you" is, at best, not helpful and, at worst, downright nasty. Norton doesn't see her grandchildren as being her "responsibility" or a problem that she has to solve. She is, worried, which I think is natural.

As someone else said, "spoilt" children tend not to be very likeable and may well be unpopular with other children and adults. It is surely natural to be worried about that?

Norton I do understand your worry but I am not sure of the best way forward. Unlike other people here, I don't think it's such a terrible thing to voice a concern to the parents - though perhaps to do so very sparingly. Obviously if you think that your son and daughter in law would take umbrage and it would cause bad feeling between you all, then it's probably better to say nothing, in the hope that things change as the children get older.

As another poster said, if the children come to your house then, so far as manners and respectful behaviour are concerned, it should, within reason, be "my house, my rules".

Buster tank, I find this hasn’t happened yet with our grandchildren. They’re great outside the perimeters of their parents. It’s the parents having the hard time, and sometimes us if we look after them. Although usually, they respond to firm words from us. They are really lovely children, I just sense contempt for their mum and dad, which is sad, because they are the ones that love them the most?

I would sit back and do nothing . Your daughter in law will soon notice her mistake , when on parents evenings the teacher pulls her up on his behaviour . Also when he doesn't get invited to party's and invited to others houses for tea . Then when she starts to complain that's when your chance to say something . Good luck .

This is so hard. We have been catapulted into a very different form of parenting to what we would have done. My children say there is an emphasis on ‘ child led ‘ just about everything now, like sleeping, feeding, discipline..... the list is relentless. We’ve watched one of our sons and his wife struggle. Where one short smack would have ended the problem when we were parents, now everything has to be negotiated!! No matter how young the child. The result...naughty children who don’t listen and have no respect. I understand the idea that it is best to back off, and let them deal with it, and it is really. However, I see it a bit like an impending car crash, you’d avoid it if you could, for , hopefully, a better outcome, but if it’s possible it may be detrimental to relationships, then yes, we do have to sit in the background and spectate. My son and DIL do not like our advice, but my other kids do, so that’s fine. We watched one of those Emergency programmes a few months ago, where the theme was parents calling the police for help with wayward kids. The message from that episode was the huge rise emergency services have seen in calls like this over the last 15 years. Discipline has gone.... the kids are in charge, and parents are just there to make sure they get what they need.

A lot of harsh comments here! I feel that you OP really want to help this little family and your motives are kind rather than critical but I certainly agree that it’s best not to offer any unsolicited advice or even any advice! I have found that the advice giver is rarely thanked! I certainly don’t offer advice around parenting to any of my children!

Please do not buy any books like that if you want to stay on good terms with the parents. That is interfering. When GC come to your house then rules of politeness are yours. When they are not with you, not your monkies not your circus.
Don't interfere!

it’s hard to keep quiet but speaking up is unlikely to help. Unasked for advice is generally useless and could damage your relationship with them. An awful lot of us have been there and understand your concern, you want to do the best for them but in this case you have to stand back. One thing - do the children come to your’s? Here it’s my house, my rules and a chance to model a different way of dealing with children. Chin up and button lip!