Darling GS

My grandchildren lived with me and then one day tge parents got up and left taking the children with them and then won’t let me see them. I took them to court as I tried everything I could to rectify the situation and see my grandchildren and after permission was granted I was given access and to go to mediation which I wanted anyway. It was hard but in the end I was a big part of the children’s lives and them in mine. You don’t need a solicitor either you can do it yourself or with tge aid of McKenzie friend., which is what I did and as I was so impressed I trained to be one so if you need any help with forms attending court with you I’m here if I can help or just talk

I think Bluebells comment was overly liberal. when dos an adult child actually start acting like one. respecting another's home should be a given ! Sounds like Grandma has to be the breadwinner and the more she gives out to the daughter, the more ungrateful she becomes. not great having to live with our parents but the daughter is younger and fitter. perhaps she could go out and earn the living and let grandma stay home with the GS. if you actually have to earn your money you take more care of the things you buy !!

At one time I had the greatest trouble communicating with my eldest son (although he lived here). He'd just get very angry and storm off if I tried to discuss his contributing to the bills. (He believed that he shouldn't have to.) In the end I wrote detailed letters to him and posted them under his bedroom door!

Picking up on the points made by Purplepoppies - which make a lot of sense to me - I would like to recommend a book I took out of the library recently to help me with my own family matters.
It is called 'How To Have Meaningful Conversations - 7 strategies for talking about what really matters'. Author is Sarah Rozenthuler ( www.watkinspublishing.com ).
Good luck!

Sorry if I've missed this, but how old is your grandson?
Arguing infront of children can be really damaging. I understand that the odd disagreement can occur but full blown blow ups are destructive. I say this as a mum who struggles with her adult dd behaviour at times and I have to bite my tongue. They don't live with me (I really couldn't) but I'm heavily involved with the family dynamics.
I'm really surprised that your dd couldn't manage financially in a flat you purchased for them. She must be feeling pretty desperate and maybe like a crap parent if shes unable to support her son alone. I can't imagine how that feels.
You have been very generous, opening your home to them and with your money. I wonder if now you can be generous with your heart? Rather than worry that your daughter will stop access to your grandson I'd be concerned whether she really needs you and is afraid to ask to for help? Emotional support I mean, not financially. Its easy when two personalities are similar to clash heads and not really hear each other. Ultimately you both want the best for your gs, right? That means the two adults in his world being calm around him and listening to each other. You don't have to agree even!!
I hope you have a peaceful time before you travel and come back with a fresh perspective on your relationship. Not a plan to 'get access ' to your gs.....

We both only tolerate living together because of the situation. We'd both rather live apart. Not distant necessarily, but not in the same house.

There's nothing worse than asking someone with PMT if they have PMT. or asking someone on antidepressants if they have been taking their medication! It's red rag to a bull. Hopefully a few months apart will make you appreciate one another more and accept one anothers shortcomings.
As she matures your daughter will realise you have her interests at heart as well as those of your grandson. Don't make her feel you only tolerate her because you dote on her son. She obviously needs lots of love. Good luck.

Relates, no rates

Houndi

I am not sure how your comment rates to the main OP.

You may want to open your own thread if you want to get more support and avoid hijacking the main subject that the OP posted.

I've apologised because I love my grandson and I'll do almost anything to maintain my relationship with him. I know her modus operandi and know that if she takes a mind to, she'll stop me seeing him once she's moved out on her own.

Which is, as I've said, something she has no option in at the moment. Once she has some free childcare available I suspect she'll get a job and be off. Which is fine (nay, preferable), as long as I get to see him.

Well Houndi, what was their relationship like before?
Was she a good mother to her before?

I know that none of my MiLs sons would ever travel to her to assist her no matter how ill she was. You reap what you sow.

I am looking after my mother im law because her daughter couldnt care less
Before she was bad she seen her 3 times in a nearly a year.When i asked her to come and stay with her for a week while i go on holiday she refused.Now with my mother in law ill i have had to cancel our cruise.Look after my mother in law 24 7 and she couldn't care less
She a selfish bitch

Try and patch things up ASAP - the longer you leave it , the more difficult it gets. Mothers and daughters are notorious for this - I’ve got a difficult daughter and many a ‘strop’ has happened between us but I am always the first to make the first - I never apologise because most of the time I’m right - but I do pop in to see her with my tail between my legs and pretend nothing’s happened. I adore my grandkids (they are teenagers now) and in order to see them , I always had to eat humble pie. Things are different now - they are busy with their own activities and Nan is the last thing on their mind - life eh?

Its very hard for a daughter to live at home with her child and mum. I think Bluebelle has given you some wise advice and so I have no advice to give you. But I would say when I split from my ex the last place on earth I would have gone to is my mum. I just could not have ever lived with her, she would also have stepped in as the other parent and her idea of bringing up children is not the same as mine. So I would say take BB advice to heart. Good luck

What was the argument you had and you apologized even if it wasn't your fault?

What is your dd doing to manage her PMT?
What is she doing to improve her complex set of conditions that do not allow her to have more social allowances?

Has she given examples of your controlling nature and if so, what were those?

You need to tell her you are not a second parent and she is the mother.

I get the feeling of you enabling her so your gc doesn't suffer.
The gc is suffering from this unstable situation anyway

You have my sympathy, OP, as your situation sounds very similar to mine, except that my dd is able to pay her way and I have never felt that it would reach the point where would deny me access to my granddaughter.

PMT is a bitch. As often as not they say and feel things that the rest of the time they don't feel at all and wouldn't dream of saying.

And its complicated still living together now that they are adults with their own responsabilities. The habit of being a mother who tries to solve all their problems for them dies hard as does their habit of expecting you to solve their problems.

My dd and I are finally living apart and she is having difficulties managing her budget because I used to do a lot of the shopping and never asked her for a contribution, but she is getting there.

Reading this I know I’ve been so lucky with my daughter. We’ve always been best friends, have done role reversal when I’ve been at a low ebb etc Of course we don’t always see eye to eye, but we’ve always just talked things thro. She left her partner and came back from Marbella with her 6month old son to live with me and we bought him up for 6 years until she met her now husband. I was working full time and shared childcare whenever I could, I was always respectful of DD with decisions etc but was able to speak up if/when I felt I needed to. We used to make a joke of our differences, but I always told DGS that DD was number one Mummy. He is 13 now and has a wonderful stepfather, so I’ve happily slipped down to no:3 carer, but he still puts no:2 Mummy on my birthday cards. I live next door in a granny annexe and we are a team working together etc I so hope that you can chat things thro with your DD so that you can both understand each other’s feelings and forge a lovely bond with DGS best interests at heart, good luck ....

I really sympathise with your situation. My adult Stepson and his partner split almost two years ago, it was an extremely acrimonious split and she denied him access to the children for five months (two were his, and one child he had brought up since she was 15 months old). He went to Court and contrary to what Mum thought my Stepson was given contact with all three children. The children’s mother was intending on withholding contact from the eldest child, the Court saw differently. What you have to remember is that whilst grandparents may not have much in the way of rights, decision making will be firmly around what is best for the child, so your concerns about your daughter denying you access to your grandson might be unfounded. If the Court deems that you have a close and positive relationship with your Grandson they may make the decision that relationship is maintained regardless of what your daughter thinks.

If your worried you won't see your grandson if she moves out , just keep the peace for his sake . Just set a few house rules .

It was very different for me as my daughter and I get on very very well but as she and the children had suffered a bereavement I was trying too hard to make it all ok and it’s so easy to go too far and get too involved but I think the break will do you and your daughter an enormous amount of good and hopefully you ll realise you have more in common than you think and miss each other and get back on a more even keel
Maybe when you return you can think of how the living arrangements can be changed to suit you both better

PMT is such a horrible one to live with whether you are the one suffering or the one living with the sufferer. If she is anything like me, she will feel fully justified when in the PMT zone even if she is being totally unreasonable and then, when she's out the other side, she beats herself up and feels unloveable because she knows how she's been. The less she loves herself, the more she'll look to see if she really is loved particularly when she's back in the PMT phase and if you look hard enough, you can always find them. I became quite paranoid during those times. Meanwhile the people living with you feel they are living on a knife edge and PMT lasts longer than people realise so you never really get back to normal before its starts rearing its ugly head again. Antidepressants helped me live with it for years until I had a radical hysterectomy.
From what you say, it seems that you are either "involved" with your DGS's care to give your daughter a break or you aren't so she can't cope. Is there a happier balance you can make? Perhaps get it so she asks for when she needs some time off but you take a back seat. When she is in a good phase, ask her how you could make her feel more in control. You might be surprised at the answers you get. Take some time to think about what she is saying with a "I'll have to take some time to process that," if you think she is being unreasonable. You can always return to her with a well thought out compromise. You might have to do this several times to affect any change but the moment you signal that you need time to think and reflect on what she is saying, you are acknowledging that you are listening. Too often we get caught up in arguments because we don't give ourselves time to process what the other person is saying and respond instinctively when you may actually have to reframe your instincts.

I have a daughter who's now a single mum and we didn't get on she is under a lot of stress I have been like you perhaps I used to say sorry when it wasn't my fault perhaps if you just said I want you to know I love you very much and I'm always here for you BOTH keep thinking about your grandson and how much he loves you

My daughter and grandson lived with me for years. We did get on, though. When she left, he stayed with me until he was ten!

This sounds like an awful situation and I do feel for you.
But...your daughter is old enough to take responsibility for herself and her child. If she was old enough to have a baby she is old enough to take some responsibility for raising it and looking after it.
And PMT is grim but it it isn't an excuse for poor behaviour.
This woman (your daughter) and her child (your grandchild) is living free of charge in YOUR home. Your home = your rules.

When I left home (after one too many arguments with my father) he said "You have made your bed, now you can lie on it". So I'm not inclined to much sympathy for grown-up whiny kids. And yes, I am aware of how difficult it is for single parents. But a bit of gratitude and working with you wouldn't come amiss.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is what I think.
I hope that things get better for you all.

I'm just wondering why mums/parents need to have time away from their children. They may want time to themselves but should they need it and therefore expect to have it. I didn't live near my parents when my children were born and were growing up. I didn't feel I had to have time away from them, it never occurred to me. Why does someone have to be there so that parents can have time away from their children, even if they are single parents.
Grandparents should be just grandparents, not pseudo parents.