Grandchildren with no structure

Yes the kids should be 'excited' to see Grandma but not to point of running riot where she cant deal with them.Im sure they are good loving parents but the son& his wife cannot just sit back and expect someone else to be showing their kids discipline- they should have done this themselves by now- what are the kids like when theyre on their own with their parents? Are they still 'a handful'? In which case they probably need the help of a proper professional nanny to keep them in check, also a chat with health visitor about the kids behaviour- is it 'normal' boisterousness?or borderline adhd behaviour? This is something they should have been looking at well before now- or is it a problem that lies with the parents- they seem happy to let their kids do as they like and leave them to others to manage.(None of my GC would dream of visiting my nor their other GP's houses & go run around the bedrooms for example) and clearly the 'other' GP's arent disciplining them in their home either, so it might be thats how your DinL was raised, so shes obviously no idea how to manage her own kids either.And couldnt they have aquired a puppy later when the kids were older, or got a rescue dog,more older so no puppy mess to clean up as well? This couple are 'doing their best' at their jobs/studies but NOT for their family.Tell them you will give them time to sort out a proffesional nanny or childminder and then you will just be a visiting GP after that- maybe you could all go walks or something so they aren't cooped up? And then hand them back to the childminder.and leave. Short managed once weekly/fortnightly visits just as a grandma will be best going forward maybe, so you can enjoy those GC.

Surely you can just visit your grandchildren without offering childcare. You must think of your own needs while trying to keep contact ?

And next time your son says "is it worth it" look him straight in the eye and say "i dont know son, you tell me? -do you mean worth it having kids and a puppy at all? Or worth you not paying out for a real nanny or minder to look after the children?"?Sometimes, we have to be firmer with our OWN children too, grown ups or not.?

I think there needs to be a conversatuon about everyone's expectations. Are you there to visit or to provide childcare?

If you are there to provide childcare so that the parents can study/work - even if they are in the house - then I think yes, a certain amount of discipline from you is appropriate, given that the parents have said they want you to do this. But discuss with the parents what they want you to do.

A visit - then thats really the parents place to set the boundaries, but common sense should prevail - if the parent is not in the room and you see something about to happen (dog grabbing toys, kid doing something dangerous) then wouldn't you say something??

I need to clarify a point or two.
1. I do not look after the pup as well as the children. He is taken by my son in his van.
2. I think part of the problem here is that the children have not had consistency of care. They visit me and other grandparents. Not during pandemic they also visit a cousin of the Mum's and have sleepovers too with her child who has an only child. Different experiences is good for children in some ways but not in others. Rules and boundaries are going to change from house to house. You cannot help that.
3. I don't think my granddaughter has ADHD. Her behaviour at school gives no cause for concern.
4. Of course steps are taken, by self and parents, to try to prevent the pup from taking their small figure toys! That does not work in my opinion and my grand children's play opportunities are being limited by the pup. I do like dogs.
5. I could not possibly manage to go out with pup and children. Taking both children down to the local park would be my limit. I would be concerned (possibly over concerned due to my anxiety) about maintaining supervision and control over the children at such times.
6. Part of the problem in my view is that my son takes insufficient interest in making decisions about the children. He leaves it all to his wife. I do not trust her decision making but I am trying not to undermine them and leave them to shape their children's development as they see fit. What would I know? I am mentally unwell and live an isolated life.
7. I raised my 5 children in an entirely different way. That was a long time ago and times change. I wonder if my own children feel they did not have a good childhood due to my being unwell.

So I thank you all for your kind consideration of this situation. I may have expressed myself badly. My main concern at this time is that I feel.unable to even visit (they are my support bubble) due to my son's comments. Thank you for your time.

Thistlelass - the problem of the children becoming excited at your arrival and effectively running riot is entirely concerned with the fact that you are going to their house - to their territory, where their boisterous puppy is. You are entering their domain where the rules are already set. As far your son remaining in the house, he probably needed you to be there so that he had the time to get ready. You can't expect a person with young children to leave them to their own devices while s/he does that. I know you don't want the gc at your house, but I would urge you to give this a go. They may run up and down the stairs at their other grandparents' home but you can set rules and be up front with them. You can structure their day for them, you won't have to worry about the puppy interfering, or about having to clean up after it. Bring a box of toys to your house, set the boundaries, and the children will respond. The fact that your son and dil want you to discipline the children is wonderful - they are asking for your help. However, on their territory you won't stand much chance if you don't have the energy because it's a much tougher call.

I think I would find it very difficult to stick to any sort of routine with the children with their father and the puppy around. I would discuss this with your son and ask him to go out and take the puppy soon after you arrive, with an instruction that "Grandma isn't here to play today, she's come to take care of you and help you with your schoolwork" to the older child.
Then help the girl with her school lesson, maybe finding something similar for the boy so he feels involved. You could promise to do something more fun or they can run around when the tasks are done.

My DGS was 10 months old when I moved into the Granny flat here, the very first thing we did was discuss discipline and rules. Pity I did not do it with SIL but that is another story......
SIL and I are quite strict but DD is like soft putty so it has been an uphill battle at times.
You need to sit down and ask your Son and his Wife what they want from you, blunt and basic. Also tell them how you are feeling, we sometimes pander to parents in case they cut us off.
DGS is nearly 9 now and knows the rules and seems to be very happy and really getting on well at school so we must have done something right.
We have also had a few rows, But used the love we have for each other(even SIL) to sort things out.
Good luck.

I have no advice but wanted to offer my sympathy in a difficult situation. Not a great deal of help, I know.

Sounds like much of the problem is your son. And you def need to look after yourself. If son takes puppy, couldn’t he supervise school work first thing then you arrive to take 2 children for a walk when he goes out? He should get them ready to go. Or just take them out early and leave him with puppy. I find walking/splashing in a bit of greenery for an hour saves our sanity and calms them down. You can give them lunch later. Not sure school work online every day is vitally important for a five year old anyway. You can have counting games and spelling games during the day or, if you need 10 mins, some good educational progs on TV, Numberblocks etc. Do they have an enclosed garden? If so, the dog can go outside for a bit with his toys and take the children too if they get boisterous. If not, shut the dog somewhere safe with a litter tray so children can play with their toys. Puppy needs to know his place in the pecking order. You have to talk to son about how to improve things for all of you. Best wishes.

Don’t let son get away with throwaway comments either btw, ask him to explain what he means when he says it.

Yes I know in future I should arrive to co-incide with him going out. No I was not there to assist with grand daughter's school work. She had a Zoom call with her teacher and other pupils. My son attended to this. As I said before I had been invited up to see how this worked. No I don't expect my grandchildren and a pup to be anything other than excited when I arrive. No I am not going to sit down with them and ask them what they need from me. My daughter-in-law is coming to the end of a 4 year degree course. When I heard she was doing this I knew I would be roped in for childcare and I did not want that. At the point when I started I was 1 year sober. It is a big ask of somebody who is so vulnerable. During that 4 year period I have given help in various measure and situation. I have a serious mental illness folks. It is extremely difficult for me to take the task on and remain well. At times after I have cared for the children I end up in bed the next day as I cannot cope mentally or physically. That said I have lasted 4 years of it. We will now be going into a new phase of it as daughter-in-law will be working. Throughout all of this I keep going for my son and grandchildren. I am already estranged from one son and frightened for this situation. I will have to discuss it with them. I am not going to say any more because I am just getting upset by various responses. Again I thank those who have given input for me to digest and consider.

Pull the sick card for a week or two, then speak to your son and DIL that you like to help but your heath isn't too grand atm but will help if you feel able. The children need to understand this, the parents need to make boundaries even at a young age, we all know children need routines and boundaries. Otherwise they will have real problems in the future. Children need to be children but shown limits a couple of weeks without your help with luck hopefully with show them? .... I would also have your son on his comments, it doesn't need to be a big thing, slip it in during a chat but he needs to know it hurt you, he also needs you otherwise they have to pay for childcare.
Best of luck and Hugs

DH breeds dogs and won’t entertain selling to anyone with children under 5 years old for the very reasons you are stating. It’s too much for the adults and the children are too young to understand. Unless there are boundaries agreed for when you are there - sadly - I would stop going.
Could you have one child at a time for a while - in your house

Sorry cannot offer advice but hope everything works out well for you Thistlelass

Good luck, you sound like you’re doing so well up to now, and children are naturally excited to see you. All good. Look after yourself.

This sounds as if it is too much for you.
Perhaps offer a lavish apology for over-estimating your own energy levels and say how foolish you were to attempt the care role. Say you've spoken to your doctor and that he/she feels that the extra stress is making your MS worse. Tell them how much you love them all and feel devastated to be letting them down but be honest and say you really can't cope. You could put it in a letter if that is easier.

With your MH issues I would suggest that most of your time is spent outside in the fresh air with two young children, let them run around, show them the lovely things we can see when we spend time outdoors. Teach them about trees, animals and nature. This will help with YOUR. mental health and it will help them use up some energy. ALL children their age are feeling the effects of lockdown and the more time they can get outside the better.
Look around for somewhere safe you can take them to run around.
Take care OP you sound tired❤️

Phew! - I feel tired just reading your post.

I am not quite clear about the situation. Have you been asked to come and look after the children while the parents work? Are they at all involved when both they and you are there?

TBH this all sounds too much for you - as it would be for many grandparents; and they do not sound at all appreciative of your help.

Why not suggest that you will look after one child at a time, and in your own home? That way you are in charge on your own territory and can be in better control of the discipline - your house, your rules.

I did this when my DD3 had her second child. I had been looking after the first child twice a week till then; and when she went back to work for the second time we discussed what I felt I could manage, and I said I was happy to have them one at a time; so we sorted an arrangement with the other granny that worked well. Then when they were both at school and needed picking up I did have two of them together, but it was only for a short after-school period and they were both familiar with my rules by then.

It might help to set clear boundaries with your family, based on what is possible for you. With your health problems it is all the more important. The current situation does not seem to be meeting anybody's needs.

Thistlelass you really do sound at the end of your tether.
You've obviously overcome a lot of problems yourself and don't need the extra stress.

One small point I picked up on: the little girl should not be able to open the door and run off down the road. That must be a major worry for you.
The door needs to be locked and the key put in a safe accessible place, well out of her reach.

Best wishes and hopefully you can all come to an agreement that works for you.

If the kids were at school/nursery as normal, they wouldn't have the dog or their toys around, so I'd start by asking their parents to remove those items from the room they're meant to be doing their 'learning' in and to tell the children why they're doing it and why you'll be there. If they don't do this, do it yourself when you arrive, letting the children know that you're there for their schooling, not playtime. They may be young but they need to understand the rules and to know that there will be other times they'll see you that ARE for playtime.

It's your son/DIL's responsibility to make sure the dog does its business in an appropriate place (outside) and if it is going to be indoors when you're there, you should have free reign to put it into the kitchen or utility so that it doesn't get too excited and do these things all over the place.

If you truly do have MS, you really don't need all the aggravation, this health condition is difficult enough to live with without having your 2 younger generations demanding inappropriately of you and I say this from the experience of being only 52 and having lived with MS for 43 years myself!

So, you need to talk to your son and DIL, tell them what you expect and what you're prepared to do as far as the children and their education and the dog are concerned, if this doesn't suit with what they want, tell them you're happy to see them at weekends or early evenings when they are there to control their menagerie themselves!

Thistlelass, Just wanted to wish you well with your ongoing problems.I also have mental health issues and have MS too.It can be very hard at times but I never give up.(I'm not saying that you do) be kind to yourself and live each day as it comes.Take care.

This sounds very stressful, Thistlelass. I think far from your DS feeling he had a bad upbringing, he has high expectations of your ability to cope, and confidence in your ability to care for your grandchildren! Through personal experience, I understand how hard it is to say 'I can't do as much as I'd like to', but I think that's what you need to say, and then sort out a plan that suits you and the children.

I think it's very unselfish of you to support your DiL's training, hopefully when she gets a job she will be able to pay for some child care which will make it possible for you to see the children socially rather than as a carer, and you might find that more enjoyable.

If I go to look after my 2 dgs's so my dd can work she would leave for work 15 mins after I get there. I would drop young one off to nursery if one of his nursery days then enjoy teaching older one. As early retired teacher I actually enjoy teaching him Maths and Science in particular. He loves bed learning do is an easy child to teach. I listen to him read then find him something from National Geographic. As few weeks ago it was about King Penguins. Then he made a little fact file about King Penguins 'to impress Mummy and Daddy when they get home'. Another day we might bake or do some craft work. I have only seen him once since Xmas with lockdown but took old Xmas cards, a hole punch, do.e silver string and pinking shears. I showed him how to make gift tags for next Xmas. While he was doing it I chatted to him about it being good for environment to reuse things if we could. Chatted about landfill etc. My dd rang last week very pleased as his teacher had asked the class why they should recycle and dgs 5 explained to his teacher and class in great detail why it is important to recycle and about landfill being bad for environment and teacher had told my dd dgs was very clued up on recycling. She replied ask him about King Penguins. If I go down and it is not a nursery day I try to take them out and about, looking at nature, collecting for cones, picking up leaves to press, making a bug hotel in back garden, or going to park them when we get back older dogs writing about what he has seen whilst put and younger child drawing a picture. I always read to them in funny voices which they try to copy. I rarely have to reprimand either child as if a child is kept busy and interested they usually behave. Children who get bored tend to misbehave. I find a structured day is better for all of us. If you go in with no activities prepared the children will run rings around you. I plan 15 mins activities, 30 mins activities and 1 hour activities. Then I do a good mix of each. If it's dry I would always do 1 outdoor activity. Before Xmas we painted smooth stones with a rainbow, then varnished them and they gave them as Xmas present paper weights. In September we painted fir cones gold to decorate the Xmas tree. In October we made paper chain decorations. In November we made Xmas cards using some Xmas stamps and coloured ink pads eldest dgc wrote them out and youngest drew kisses on them.

that's marvellous, but i think most people who have not been teachers or prof child-minders would not have that level of expertise or ideas.
i really think the Op is being over-stretched, and no one in that house is thinking of her needs. she has said that she is not well, and even for someone who is well, it would be tiring.
Op you need to look after yourself.
there is no merit in being a martyr.
your life is as important as anyone else's.
good luck.