Calling SS on Tuesday

I may also add that you were NOT unschooled by what today's unschooling is choosing if you go to a lesson or not is not the same as what parents who unschool do

Chapeau with all respect, despite your final statement not being respectful to me, you are talking about very different times to today.

When I look at the jobs I had and the house I bought from my earnings back then and look at today's generation and how they'd be lucky to rent a bedsit on what I had.

Good for you that you did all of that I'm glad you enjoyed it and I'm glad you enjoy your retirement but these are very different times perhaps you're too busy swanning with your eyes shut

Many thanks to everyone for the positive and interesting responses to my Summerhill post.
Ixion Like those ex-Summerhill School students, I too went to university and “got there” in my own way…eventually. After leaving the Diplomatic Service and raising two kids, it was time to get a degree. When I left university I had enough qualifications to ensure a career where I could return to “swanning about the world”. I am now a retired university professor. The timing of my decision to get a ‘formal’ education in my 30s was just right…for me.
Granypie In my response to Ixion (above) you will see that, despite being “unschooled”, I have achieved academic success, held prestigious career positions, travelled the world and generally had a good time. I am not an exception. I spent nearly two years at a girls grammar school before I went to Summerhill. It was the most miserable period of my childhood and I believe my life would have been quite different if I’d been forced to stay in that environment for another 5 years.
The real point though is that like me, your grandchildren can have a formal education any time they choose. In fact universities encourage mature students who have a wealth of experience in non-academic fields. There are so many easily accessible routes into formal education at every level so why don’t you just leave well alone. Your grandchildren will be fine if you would just let them adjust to their current situation with care and understanding. They’re only seven years old for heaven’s sake and you want to upset them even more. It’s not your DIL who needs reporting!

I did ixion and thought what it was a coincidence.
My DBiL was a pupil at Monkton Wyld school which, like Summerhill was a progressive school in Dorset. (he turned out fine)
I taught for a few years at the Rudolph Steiner school although couldn't afford to send our own DC there and they didn't want to be different so it may not have been a good thing for them.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education

There was the small school at Hartland, Devon begun by Satish Kumar. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Small_School
Often these places were started experimentally but the successful ideas were taken up by mainstream education.
I have known a few families who home schooled for various reasons but the unschool idea is new to me, I must admit. Far from being lazy, anyone who decides to educate their own DC is brave and energetic.

I understand your concerns Granypie I'm sure I'd feel the same if they were my GC but I've just googled unschooling and it is legal in the UK.

Did any one else see Summerhill School featured on Great British Railway Journeys at 18.30 tonight on BBC2?
Fascinating to hear current students talk about their life there and wonderful archive photographs of school life.
Also interesting, it was stated that those who chose to apply to University 'got there' but 'in their own way'. Seemingly articulate, grounded and mature students, judging by the interview.
A real eye-opener.

I understand that "unschooling" just means learning without a curriculum but based on the children's interests. It must be difficult accepting that the children's mother has a very different view of education but it doesn't necessarily mean that the children will come to any harm and there's a growing number of children who are home schooled and also "unschooled" The link below gives guidance on home schooling which you might like to read but basically any parent can decide to home school, doesn't have to notify the LA and can choose what to teach or what not to teach.I understand that you are very concerned for your GKs but tbh it's not your responsibility and you are powerless to intervene unless you thought there was a safeguarding issue.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/791528/EHE_guidance_for_parentsafterconsultationv2.2.pdf

I know a young man who was unschooled and was certainly not neglected in any way by his parents, but his interests were nurtured and he is extremely talented in his particular area. Yes, he might not have been able to read at seven but this hasn’t held him back or stopped him from choosing to go to school as he’s got older where he hasn’t experienced any academic or social difficulties. And he hasn’t been disadvantaged by not having routine inflicted upon him. It’s not something I would have the confidence to do with my own child and I admire his parents’ commitment.

MineCraft is used in some educational establishments. During the big lockdown last year my then eight year old daughter spent a lot of time playing it, practising her creative, coding and mathematical skills - she researched things, created worlds, videoed them and emailed them to her teacher. To be honest she’d have been better off doing that this last lockdown rather than becoming disengaged with Zoom lessons.

It’s not something that you agree with - no doubt my own mother didn’t agree with me breastfeeding until my daughter decided to stop, or agreed with me about bed sharing or a million other things - but by crikey she knows better than to put her oar in. And so should you.

I don’t think it’s a case of “how little schooling the children get”.

Unschooling is a way of learning through life. I know John Holt called it that, but mostly it’s just one way to home-educate. There are many versions of child-led learning and each family will find the way that suits them best.

My children learned in a broadly “unschooled” way (though I hate the phrase) and it was truly not a cop out.

My fear of stepping into this much-criticised territory drove me to insist on some “conventional” learning. All my children learned a language and they all did some maths. BUT the rest of the time we were facilitators.

Maybe your daughter-in-law and son have been facilitating learning (as we did) but with more confidence that the maths would come? Maybe you should find this out?
My daughter’s little childhood friend who was truly “unschooled” went on to study physics with maths - that is still his passion.

Children love to learn, it has been a privilege to facilitate my children’s learning journey. All the negativity here is deeply depressing.

May I ask why they split?

I think you really must step back or you may be stopped from seeing the GC altogether. Your son had years to discuss and sort this out, he must have gone along with it. It is for him to speak to his ex but if he hasn't up to now not sure he will. If he thinks something should be done about it let him sort it out. Like you I would be worried that they don't appear to be able to read and write anything but is this true maybe they just didn't want to oblige you.

lovelycuppa we are only getting the story of how much or how little schooling the children get, through a man who went along with it all for 7 years until he left home, and is now revving his mother up to action

This isn’t fair on the mother, the wife, or the children

The poster doesn’t often see the children (once or twice a year) so apart from the one conversation when she tested them she has no idea what the mother does with them or what they are capable of
at the tender age of 7
Shopping can become a maths lesson
Walking in the woods can be a science or nature lesson
Colouring and cooking both mentioned can be used as learning tools if done properly
The mother might be a useless hippy who does nothing but sit and watch TV all day while the children run riot or she may be teaching them many life skills that they would know nothing of in mainstream school, the poster doesn’t know, she is just being sent in a tizz by her newly separated son

In my opinion, and I understand that it is only my opinion, that sounds far too unstructured. However, your view of a proper education sounds positively archaic! Education is far more than sitting at a table with a text book as a 7 year old. Ofsted inspectors would fail a school whose teachers thought that was acceptable.

OP

You are using the legal system to force your dil to do what you want, even remove custody time from her.

This very very very rarely ends well.
With your actions, you choose your consequences.

You are out of order granypie) it is not your call at all and yes *trisher is right two of my grandkids live in NZ you can’t get much further away but I used to get photos, school reports, and school photos, drawn pictures etc so nothing to do with distance

Here’s my question of the day ?

Why has all this only become a problem since your son has left his wife Ask yourself this question and give yourself an honest answer

Granypie LAs have no legal powers to compel children to attend school. Education is the legal responsibility of the parents.

There is guidance for LAs, who should have their own individual policies in regard to education outside the school system.

If there appears to be cause for concern the LA may seek to open a discussion with the parents, not any other relative.
In this scenario the weight is given to what the parents have decided and the LA would have to initiate a process to show that the children were not receiving an education.

But no, the LA can’t just decide they don’t like what they see and place the children in a school. They do not have the legal power to do that or the right.

I fear you are going to be disappointed in what you think will happen. Especially since your son has been agreeable to this form of education for a number of years. He will have to show why he now thinks it has become unsuitable, what has changed.

In every case discussion between parents and the LA is the first step and mediation between parents if necessary. There is no role for grandparents in these discussions. Your son must be the one to take action.

Granypie what you have read and what actually happens in practice is very different. The LA will put your GCs on a list for assessment, when that assessment comes will depend on their staffing levels (most are understaffed). After the assessment they will meet with the parents and discuss any concerns, the parents will then be able to continue home schooling if they wish with a date set for a second assessment to see if the problems have been addressed. An LA would only insist children attended school against a parent's wishes if they were sure firstly that it was in the child's best interests and secondly that the parent would comply with the instruction. Not much use placing a child in a school if the child is unhappy or if the parent won't take him there.
Really you would be better negotiating rather than reporting.

If your son is really concerned about the children then he needs to get a suitable home and apply for custody

Exactly. Then he’d have to actually DO something. And urgh isn’t that just so much effort when he can whine and moan about his Ex instead.

I would think that whoever you phone will tell you that it is nothing to do with you.

If your son is really concerned about the children then he needs to get a suitable home and apply for custody. Telling his mother he does not like their upbringing is not the way to behave.

I have always known my gc were homeschooled what I did not know was that this was what was happening. Not all grandparents live near GC or have a hands on role this does not make them any less grandparents than those who do.

Homeschool and this unschooling are not the same thing.

And tbh I don't care what it says to whom about what my gc need help now and it's urgent. I'll deal with judgement later if I'm bothered about what people think of me and my son as people.

From what I've read the LA will be in touch with them immediately to arrange a meeting to see what the children are doing and should they not like it they have the power to place them in a school right away.

It seems to me that for 7 years you have happily ignored these children. I always knew which nursery and school my GCs were in but apparently you didn't realise yours were being unschooled. You now seem determined to cause as much upset as possible on the basis you claim that the children have a right to an education. Why not stop being so agressive, leave the autorities out of it, tell your DS to ask the children to stay for weekends and teach them a few things yourself. I don't know what you think will happen if the LA step in but your GCs and your DiL are going to get very upset. And you may suffer because of that,

I can hear how worried and shocked you are Granypie. I would worry too!
Formal main stream schooling does not fit well for all children and families. I have a friend who is now ( after the school system failed her eldest 2) is homeschooling her children using the ‘unschooling’ philosophy. All of them can read and are very active and independent. They get out and about a lot and learn from experience. The eldest child was due to sit GCSEs locally ( after having a part time tutor provided by the LA to prepare him) but with Covid exam cancellations, I’m not sure how that worked out! I’m just saying as I understand it, if done properly to give opportunities for learning from experience, ‘ unschooling’, whilst unconventional can suit some families. My friend ( and others I know home schooling more formally) chose homeschooling to suit their children’s needs not out of laziness, so you may be wise to gently try and understand why your d.s. went down this road! Presumably it was because your ds and dil thought it was the best way for the children to develop at the time other families were applying for nursery and school places. Take time to understand it.

So you’re doing this....and not their father. The adult man.

Again. Says plenty.

I’d be very surprised if anyone in the LA would discuss a child over the phone. Neither should they discuss a child with anyone except a parent. Both would be serious breaches of confidentiality.

It must be your son who takes action.

Watch it Granypie your DS may have access to his children but if you start causing trouble your DIL could very well stop you seeing them.
As far as questioning the children goes my GS who is 6, andin school could very well not answer, say he doesn't know or just ignore me if I turned up after a long abscence and started firing questions at him.
If your DS is worried he needs to discuss this with his ex. And you need to stay out of it. There are subtler ways to help the children than calling SS who won't do anything unless the children are in a very bad situation.