Calling SS on Tuesday

Good call Granypie in my opinion. Sensible.
Perhaps come back with an update in due course as I’m sure all of us who have responded to your thread would be interested.

Granypie I m glad you ve come down from ringing SS but it really isn’t your place to ring anyone What is the matter with the son doing it himself are you implying by his absence in all of this that he is a weak person as he seems to have always been happy with the arrangements until he arrived at yours

You say you will get someone round to see them Good luck with that one I be very surprised if anyone will be rushing round
I think there are many ways to teach children and you actually have no idea only hearsay how much or how little the mother is doing
I wouldn’t have wanted to go down the route of home schooling it doesn’t appeal to me at all, but I ve seen many children thrive My own cousin was school phobic long before the term was given credence his parents were far too busy working to do any home schooling and it wasn’t heard of then but he ended up being an art expert buying and selling art work and used by galleries for his knowledge

The authorities will know of your DC existence, surely?
How can anyone avoid the radar nowadays!
I hope that you get peace of mind Granypie and that your DGC are cared for and loved.

Granypie - that sounds like a good and measured response . I understand your concern, I would be worried about their future too. Hopefully support and guidance will be given. It may take some time though as due to Covid so many children have fallen behind and I guess the Education Department will be pretty stretched .

I would suggest that you read this;
Elective home education: guidance for parents
from the government website.
Lots of useful information for you.

Having just read your response this morning, Granypie, I think calling their LA is a good starting point. Hopefully, from there, an assessment will be sought.
Is your son onboard?

Thank you for all replays

For those saying children start school at 7 in other countries, there is no plan for GC to ever start school, to ever do their exams or gain a qualification

Chapeau that does sound wonderful but now times are different. You can't even sit on a till in Asda without a GCSE to your name and I saw Boots was asking for a C in English. You need a degree to be a nurse and can't get that without an A-C in maths and English. Carpenters and mechanics all need qualifications and a certain level of maths and English or they're unemployable.
If parents do not send they're children to school they do not have to follow any rules they don't even have to speak to any authority, nobody checks, nobody tests and nobody makes sure the children are learning anything. Regardless of how and why this came about for my GC, they are today, here and now not receiving an education that they have the right to and are too young to go out and grab for themselves so therefore it is up to ANY adult who notices this to do something about it.

The first thing I'll be doing on Tuesday, having read replays and looked online, is phoning up their local authority and getting somebody sent round there as currently they don't know my gc even exist and they should know ALL children are out there being homeschooled, unschooled or just not in schools.

Many countries don't start formal schooling until seven, and those children seem to do very well.

Chapeau
That’s an amazing experience.
Forty years ago I would have leapt at an opportunity like that for my son.
Severely dyslexic, a real dread of academic work, but very practical and outdoorsy.
We found an independent school that was quite free thinking, but your school would have been a dream for him.

I understand that you are upset and angry - this goes against the ‘norm’ for you in terms of education . Your son is the one who should be raising concerns though , and really he should be working with his ex partner to look at where there are gaps in his children’s experiences and how he can help to fill them. Un-schooling is legal , and there is no set curriculum , but there would be an expectation at least that basic maths and English are learnt in due course and it does sounds like this is not happening right now in a formal way. However what about other skills such as use of
language and problem solving ? Physical skills too ?
As others have mentioned it would be for the education authorities to consider this within their remit .
Social services have a very high threshold for intervention and their main aim is to keep children at home as this has been overwhelming proven to be in their best interests unless they are at risk of significant harm.
There are many different levels of harm of course and ‘failure to thrive ‘ or ‘ achieve potential’ is also a consideration . But this would elicit support not draconian removal of the children which is a last resort and would never be used in these circumstances
I find it hard to understand why you would wish to remove these children from a loving environment and have them placed in care - or with you. The damage done would be hugely greater than a lack of education and would affect their whole lives more profoundly .
Support your son to work with his family, communicate , nurture the relationships, be compassionate and sympathetic. Work on yourself to get control of this shock and anger. Try to see another perspective even if it is one that you vehemently disagree with.
Otherwise you do risk estrangement and never seeing these children again. What mother would let you near her kids if she thought you were trying to get them removed ?

chapeau what a wonderful story

There is a lot of pressure put on kids and those out of mainstream school do normally have as many or more skills when they are grown
People are afraid of change and your daughter in law sounds unafraid to do things differently
I followed the mass not brave enough to try any alternatives

Its very noticeable that all this has come to your attention SINCE your son has left his wife He obviously was onboard with her style for 7 years until they parted now you are being fed every story under the sun You say yourself you knew nothing before so that screams of your son seeking revenge and bringing all the negatives out now

Either this is revenge or he was a very weak parent for seven years

OP, you put all the blame on your DIL. There are two parents and ignoring your DS's role in their upbringing is unfair. Your son has had every opportunity to change this situation and he hasn't, except now they have parted ways he has decided to complain to Mummy.
You may not agree with the way they are educated, and I do totally agree with you, but it is not your place to barge in now and change things.
If your son wishes to he can talk to his wife and discuss the different educational options. Perhaps the children visiting a few schools with the parents and seeing what everyone thinks could be a good first step.
Reporting to SS at this point will just seem vengeful. And unless the children are physically uncared for there is unlikely to be an outcome that is satisfactory to you.
I do understand your concerns but tread carefully.

Their local authority has to keep a register of children who are home schooled. They are visited to assess what they are learning - my good friend is one of those assessors in London. I suggest your son contacts his LEA.

Chapeau there's always a lot of judgemental rubbish around anything that isn't the norm.

Thanks for posting your positive experience. I feel really defensive when people want to make people adopt a particular form of learning. We forget that schooling as most people know it is still a relatively new way of learning and doesn't suit everyone.

So much negativity and ranting. If a child has been passing as an "ordinary" child for 7 years, why are they suddenly not? I would ask are these children happy, cared for and lively in their own way? If so, give them a break, they are doing ok.

Many homeschoolers learn things at different times because lots of families are child-led.

If you want to be positive (and are worried about reading) you could offer to read to them. That's the way my children learned to read.
At 7+ it's likely to happen quickly.
Try to enjoy your time with them and see if you can add something to their lives.

Good luck.

wise words GrannyRose.

Chapeau

I went to Summerhill School and as silverlining48 mentioned, I was free to attend classes if I chose. I could also choose to work in the school garden or on the farm, make dens in the woods, potter in the pottery or do a spot of welding in the workshop. By the time I was 16 I could service and drive a car, repair electrical items, plant and grow vegetables, build a bookcase (yes, it sagged a bit) and was a pretty good potter. In all likelihood I would've been able to spend all day on my ipad or phone...if I chose to.
With few academic qualifications I was selected to join the Diplomatic Service where, after 2 years in the FCO in the Private Office of the then Foreign Secretary, I was posted as an attache to the British Embassy in Burma. I have been happily swanning round the world since then.
Not bad for someone who was "unschooled" with fees paid for by the Social Services!!

Gosh, that's an amazing story, Chapeau. I read about Summerhill many many years ago and have often wondered what became of it and it's ideals once the founder died. It's so good to hear a positive report from someone who actually went there.

I certainly can't write anything as positive about my girls' grammar school education. I have always thought it was good but it was never exciting.

It all sounds wonderful to me. I wish I had had the courage to do something similar for my children 30 years ago.

Homeschooling my grandchildren during lockdown has taught me just what possibilities there are when you are not bound by the school bell, school run, national curriculum etc.

Children do not NEED to read by the time they are 7. They do not NEED to be able to do calculations in their head by that age either.

You are risking any relationship you might otherwise have with your grandchildren by trying to impose your narrow view of education on them and their mother.

Support your son in what actions he wants to take by all means, but don't pick a fight with your DiL. If you do everyone will lose.

Hithere yep, really useful life skills and I'm so lucky to have had that particular style of education (or un-education if you like). I think we could learn a lot from Finland.

Chapeau

Those life skills are amazing!

Much better than those useless boring classes that added nothing to how life works.
I had the most boring history teachers and all the history I know now is what I have researched as an adult, for example.

Granypie, I understand your concern about your grandchildren's lack of education, but it is your son's responsibility to take action, not yours. Presumably he was living with his wife and family when the children were due to start schooling, and connived at the arrangements for his wife to 'home school' them. He should contact the local Education Authority and request an assessment, which may well have implications for custody.
Many countries do not start formal education for children until age seven, but there are very structured programmes for pre-school education in place, focusing on language, communication skills and preparation for learning. Your grandchildren do not appear to be receiving a suitable alternative to formal education, and your son should have taken action earlier if he is concerned. He must also be prepared to take far more responsibility for overseeing their education; is he prepared to do this?

I went to Summerhill School and as silverlining48 mentioned, I was free to attend classes if I chose. I could also choose to work in the school garden or on the farm, make dens in the woods, potter in the pottery or do a spot of welding in the workshop. By the time I was 16 I could service and drive a car, repair electrical items, plant and grow vegetables, build a bookcase (yes, it sagged a bit) and was a pretty good potter. In all likelihood I would've been able to spend all day on my ipad or phone...if I chose to.
With few academic qualifications I was selected to join the Diplomatic Service where, after 2 years in the FCO in the Private Office of the then Foreign Secretary, I was posted as an attache to the British Embassy in Burma. I have been happily swanning round the world since then.
Not bad for someone who was "unschooled" with fees paid for by the Social Services!!

Granypie, I totally sympathise with you and can fully understand why you are so upset and worried for the children. I would be exactly the same in the circumstances. I would find it difficult to stand back and watch this mess unravel. I cannot understand why on earth "unschooling" is even legal in the UK, what a ridiculous concept. Far too bohemian to be of any use in the long term education of children and very worrying that some people think its an acceptable concept. However it sounds like you are in between a rock and a hard place. Your DIL does not sound like someone who will listen to reason but your DS has to man up and take responsibility for his past part in all this. I think mediation between you all is what is needed, get round a table and talk, including the other grandparents too if they are still alive. If what you say is fact, this is not home schooling and will result in these kids being totally lacking even the basics of literacy. Take care

You should take everything you hear with a very large pinch of salt. It’s clear your son - who didn’t seem to have a problem before - wants custody, although why they’d give it to an adult who has moved back in with mummy, I don’t know.

If you report it, it sound like it’s unlikely to go anywhere and it will irreversibly damage your relationship with your GCs.

Did you see your gc once or twice a year before their parents split or after split?

How often does your son see his kids now?

I cannot believe you use a precious visit and time with your gc to gather "proof" against your dil, what a manipulative move

If I were their mother and found out, I would be fuming.

If they were growing up in a deprived area their parents would be regarded as neglectful, so I suspect an articulate middle class parent is playing the system and will have the right answers should anyone bother to check. These children are obviously off the radar and I would be worried too, but as others have said, the DiL holds all the cards and believes in a child’s right to be feral.