Calling SS on Tuesday

Wow talk about stepping on toes.

What the heck has it got to do with you?

1 - you're the distant grandma. You said it yourself you see them twice a year.

2 - she hasn't done anything wrong. She's more than entitled to follow this form of parenting/education whether or not you agree with it.

Granypie if you ever want to see your grandchildren do not interfere. It's unconventional but not against the law. If the children are happy, fed, safe and learning unconventionally then it is not up to you how they are brought up. How would your son feel if he was not allowed to see his children because of your interference? I suspect social services would check they were all of the above things then close the case however your relations and your son's with your DiL and grandchildren would be soured for ever. 7 is still young - some countries don't start formal schooling till then and there have been moves to try that here.

I haven't read all of the replies, but just wanted to apologise to granypie for my misunderstanding as pointed out by Bluebelle. Thank you, and I'm sure you know I did not intend to mislead anyone

I'm concerned about my gc not having a proper education as unschooling is NOT a proper education it's lazy parenting and a denial of children's rights

In your opinion. You have no proof, from what you’ve told us, it’s only what you’ve been told. If your son wants to change things, then he needs to get off his butt and do something about it.

If you meddle, you’ll be the bad guy and may well end up never seeing the children again. Is that what you want?

Granypie Hi there, I agree there is cause for concern and I know a little about “ no schooling” it’s popular in pockets of the U.K., Brighton being a hotspot.

You need to separate the no schooling from the parenting.
If you think there is neglect or abuse then there may be a case, if the children are well cared for but just lacking an education then a care order is very unlikely to be issued.

I suggest you have a face to face conversation with dil your son and his in-laws.
There may be some middle ground such as the children spending more time with grandparents and father, there are also some really good groups and meet ups for home schooled children.

Do not alienate dil as she currently holds all the cards, at this stage offer support and keep all lines of communication open.

"it's lazy parenting"

Yes, starting by your son, ex-dil is secondary here.

They are not registered with any educational authority. When they became school age Dil simply did nothing didn't phone the nearest school or the local authority or anything just carried on like she didn't have to

But granypie your son was involved when they were 5 years old so it was HIS decision as well, you are constantly blaming your daughter in law, but it’s your son equally he must have been happy with the situation or he would have put his foot down or even left 2 years ago

All of this midnight business is hearsay you haven’t been involved and only heard about it when he left the family home
Surely if he had been concerned he would have talked to you before, you obviously have a good relationship.

I'm concerned about my gc not having a proper education as unschooling is NOT a proper education it's lazy parenting and a denial of children's rights

I can understand you being concern BUT home schooling and unschooling is recognised by the authorities

I think this is all being drip fed by your son who obviously has a reason for leaving what real evidence do you have that they are up at midnight or that their mum is not doing any work with them you only have what you son is telling you and he is only telling you since he has left his family home QED

Back off Grandma!
In many counties, inc Finland that has the highest educational achievement globally, children don't start formal education until aged 7.
There's many ways to skin a cat. Any model that encourages children to want to learn, and to critically analyse what they are learning is fantastic.
Love the fact that their parent have followed what is best for the child, rather than dictates from governments.
look at your sons motivation in this. Is it really about what is best for the children involved?

I am telling you my gc can not read and according to the articles I've seen regarding "unschooling" these people believe it is perfectly normal with some children not reading even at the age of 13. They are not taught until they say they want to read.

I know the GC who uses Minecraft does so unrestricted way past midnight. The children when asked what is homeschool they say colouring, cooking, video games and forests.

They are not registered with any educational authority. When they became school age Dil simply did nothing didn't phone the nearest school or the local authority or anything just carried on like she didn't have to.

@Bibbity thank you for your comment but I'm not here for finger pointing, I'm concerned about my gc not having a proper education as unschooling is NOT a proper education it's lazy parenting and a denial of children's rights

Your son does not come across well here. He looks the worst one.

My grandson's both use minecraft to learn computer coding so I believe it can be educational.

I disagree that you should not do anything. I couldn't stand by and see my grandkids neglected, which is what I see going on.

No schedule, and no education at all by the sounds of it. Just an excuse to be lazy.

Push your son to be involved in his children's schooling, and if that doesn't work, then re-think.

Even if the schooling is unconventional, they should be registered with the education system.

It’s for age 7+ according to the NSPCC. Even if it was 21+ it’s still not the OP’s place to interfere. The children’s father is the one who should be stepping in if he doesn’t like the situation.

www.net-aware.org.uk/networks/minecraft/

There are bound to be questions asked.

I'd take what your son says with a pinch of salt. If they are playing Mincecraft from 10am till midnight then how are they coloring, cooking and going into the woods?

It doesn't add up, that for 7 years he's gone along with this and had absolutely no idea that his children can't read or write?

My 8 year old plays Minecraft and you have to read to play that otherwise you don't know what you're doing. So he must be able to read.

Hmm. This too is a worry:

“According to the 'Entertaining Software Rating Board' (ESRB), Minecraft is suitable for users aged 10+. Due to its 'Fantasy Violence,' the ESRB states that this rating has been given as 'players can engage in violent acts such as setting animals on fire and harming them with weapons.”

I know our almost 9y old has expressed an interest as he’s obviously heard other boys at school talking about it at play time. ‘No way José’ said his mummy. ‘It’s against the law. If other mummies say ‘yes’ that’s their business, but you aren’t old enough yet’.

So - a 7y olds playing until midnight? As McEnroe would say ‘you gotta be joking, right?’.

This isn’t schooling. Or even ‘unschooling’. It’s ducking parental responsibility. ‘The easy option’.

Granypie, my impression is that you’ve had little involvement in the lives of your grandchildren until your son left his family and moved in with you.
He was happy with their way of life but is now talking of taking the children to live with him at your house. The children are somehow having to understand daddy has gone. Unless there are safeguarding issues, surely the last thing they need is a war between their newly separated parents.
Children’s Services are responsible for the welfare and safeguarding of children. The l.a. Education department for ensuring their educational needs are met. I’m not a fan of homeschooling or nonschooling but both are popular.
Your son has parental responsibilities, shared with his wife. Your role in all of this must be to support the parents in their choices, without judgement.

I'd be worried too, especially about the computer games which I presume are online and unsupervised. Whilst, I'm of the view that now days there is too much emphasis on academic learning from a very young age and far too many tests and that the continental approach of starting formal learning at 6 or 7 is much more child friendly; I'm also of the view that children still need structure and learning through play but definitely not unrestricted and unsupervised use of online games which can potentially be very damaging; more so than being force fed an education at school.

Sorry, "here" not "her".

I've read all the replies on her and agree that it is not your call, Granypie, it is up to your son to decide on the best course of action. But I wonder how many of those saying it's not a problem, they'll catch up eventually (by some form of osmosis, I assume) and not to worry would feel the same if it were their grandchildren. Just a thought.............

you seem to have a very regimented idea of how children should be raised.
in most european countries children do not even begin any formal learning until after age 7, and they are usually well ahead of uk outcomes in educational achievement.
these children may well be more mature in their own way, more resourceful and self-sufficient than those who have been dragooned from infancy, and their every move timetabled.
leave them be. if you alienate the children's mother, you may not see the children. your son's idea of ad hoc schooling is a non-starter. no school would accept that. and what about the effect on the children. it might traumatise them to be thrown into a totally different, highly regimented environment.
they sound happy and healthy. let them be.

I think it seems a bit of a bohemian lifestyle in many ways. No structure and no boundaries by the sounds of it. I’m not sure that I’d like it for my grandchildren either Granypie and I would be concerned. I think children ‘need’ boundaries to feel safe with their parameters otherwise their available scope is just too overwhelming. No-one to say ‘no’. I honestly think it would frighten a child to have so much freedom and power, deciding what they will or will not do.

However your son has been complicit with these loose arrangements (until now). It’s up to him to sort this out with his (ex?) wife. Please don’t even think about getting involved. Are there other grandparents? If so, what does your son think they feel about this ‘unschooling’?

Good luck going forward. I hope the parents can thrash this out and agree a course of action.

Try not to distress yourself.
Your grandchildren may well, through the interests they develop of their own volition, go on to overtake their more conventionally educated peers and to excel in some field that would never have become available through the national curriculum. When their interests require them to be able to read, or to study maths, science or the arts, they will acquire these skills because they will be motivated to do so.

If you go on the Gov.uk website there is information regarding Home Education, and what is expected if this is chosen by parents.
Home Education comes under the Local Authority and if they feel that this is not being carried out well, there are steps they can take.
First though, if your Son has now decided that this style of Education is not working out, he must discuss this with their Mother.

I repeat you son has gone along with your daughter in laws life style for 7 years!!!

he has now said he will register them at a school here and have them stay with us for two weeks and send them everyday when a place comes up

I m sorry to say you won’t find any school that will take on children who live a long way away for two weeks here and there
As much as you may think it’s wrong it is a perfectly lawful way to educate children just not your or my way I can totally understand your concerns but they are your concerns, not the mothers and up to very recently not the fathers either.
Your son must have had a conversation when they were 4 or 5 and getting ready for mainstream school and he must have accepted this alternative way of teaching that your daughter in law advocated He has only changed his mind since being influenced by you
I repeat if they are well fed, clothed, clean and happy there is nothing to be done I couldn’t bear having children go to bed when they want and playing on games all day but it’s not my call and neither is it yours
I would step back and let your son make some choices