Feeling sidelined

How awful for you ! I'd say quite typical as its your son's child . All you can do is 'go with flow' & try to focus elsewhere in your life. Difficult , I know !

Unfortunately it’s one of the prices of having sons. Daughter-in-laws will always put their mums first. But you remember when you had your children you didn’t want anyone near or touching them. My youngest son wife’s parents have my grandson once a week for sleep overs but I don’t live near. So when I visit they have a night out and stay in hotel and I babysit my 2yr grandson. My other daughter inlaw just had my granddaughter in lockdown so I’ve only just met her. But I’m only expecting to see her with them. My oldest granddaughter had her all time and took away etc. Now parents divorced only see her when with daddy. There is no law on what time you have with your grandkids. Instead of worrying what you don’t have. But happy with what you do have. If they get divorced it can be taken away in a flick of a finger. I don’t fret about what other grandparents are having or doing.

Please come back twinstar

indeed

All so well said, anonymous44. You really hit the nail on the head from DIL’s likely perspective.

In regards to the gifts, I think your DIL is making the common first-time mother blunder of being overly fussed with the little details. Surely a couple toys that stray from what she sees as ideal won't hurt the child...I think the other poster's idea about the wish list is a good one. Hopefully her negative feelings over the dynamic I described in my previous comment are just bubbling over into this. Maybe once you sort that out, she will loosen up with the gift pickiness.

I am sorry you are hurting. I speak from the other side, and hope that my perspective is helpful to you (as yours is for me).

When a grandparent is overly eager to bond with a grandchild, they often make the mistakes of neglecting their relationship with the parents and overstepping boundaries. This is further complicated if the grandparent harbors a false sense of entitlement in regards to their rights with the child. They feel they are owed a certain amount of time, equal treatment to someone else, or are excused from breaking normal social boundaries with the child simply because they are the grandparent.

When I read your post, it sounds like you are very eager to have a close relationship with your granddaughter, but that you have no interest in having a close relationship with your DIL, or even your own son. It sounds like you view your DIL as merely the gateway to your granddaughter. I'm sure that your DIL senses that you want her to go away so that you can have her child all to yourself. This is a recipe for her to feel threatened. You write that you just had to watch your DIL play with your granddaughter last visit. Perhaps your DIL is trying to tell you that she would like to be included in these visits, rather than you monopolizing your granddaughter's attention and excluding DIL? When you visit, you should be equally interested in visiting with DIL, as she is also your family member. If not, she will feel like you are competing against her rather than joining her in loving the child.

If DIL's parents are more involved than you, it is because they have a stronger relationship with your son and DIL. If you change your attitude from seeking your (imagined) rightful share of your granddaughter, to trying to be supportive to the family as a whole, you will likely find yourself included more.

It is not appropriate to take someone else's child on a walk without the parents' enthusiastic blessing. You could maybe offer if the parents seem like they need a break. But you should never just walk off. And if you took the child away during a group gathering, it probably seemed like you just wanted her all to yourself. This behavior likely came across as possessive and boundary-stomping to your DIL. She likely fibbed that she was sick rather than tell you to stop monopolizing her child.

In summary, the more your push to bond with the child while putting little effort in to developing a relationship with your DIL, the worse the problem will get. If you want your DIL to do more than tolerate you, then you have to treat her as more than merely the gateway to your grandchild. Your relationship with your granddaughter will come naturally if you have a good relationship with both of her parents.

the simple fact is that it is the parents' decision how to bring up their child, and other people have to respect that.
the parents don't have to justify it.
the OP does not seem to have the correct attitude in all this.

@theworriedwell

It’s all so dependent on the person and the baby. I had a very difficult baby who was an awful sleeper, but who also couldn’t be settled by anyone but mom and dad. On the one hand, it’s not nice to feel like an incubator who grandma doesn’t care to spend time with as long as she gets to see her grandchild. On the other hand, nap time is precious for your own sleep and for getting others things done. Some loving hosting and recharge on that interaction. Others (like me) crave quiet time and are drained from hosting for more than an hour or two.

Also, when baby naps, it is the only time to go to bathroom, get something to eat, read a book, clean a little, take a breather and appreciate the silence, etc

It is the only me time moms get

Because some babies take time to settle.

I always thought it was nice to have some time with adult visitors when baby/toddler had a nap. I'm not sure why they would have to leave just because it was nap time.

Hello,
We had no schedule but our children did require naps when little all the same.

I would have wanted visitors (who had already been there a while) to leave if I knew my little one was getting overtired. If they’d only just walked in I’d point them towards the kettle!

Daisy,

I agree with you a schedule is the general advice given in the US, where I am located.

Apologies for not proofreading. I meant to say I sometimes worried my MIL saw me the way OP sees her DIL.

I appreciate your responses and I am certainly not a perfect mother, myself! I am writing from across the pond, so the advice may be different. I wouldn’t call us neurotic about schedules, but I can see your points. What I was trying to get at is that this child may thrive on a strict sleep schedule (as my own doe) and I don’t think there is anything wrong with being intentional about sticking to it. It may just be an excuse to leave, but it may also be a real need for the child that thankfully won’t last forever.

I fully appreciate that MILs are mothers, themselves, which is one of the reasons I come here for perspective (and to be humbled, at times). In our case, we are older first time parents, so quite a bit has changed in almost 40 years. I had a lot of pushback from my MIL at the beginning and sometimes I worried to saw me the OP sees her DIL. A big difference, however, is that I felt it important to deal with these conflicts as they came up, rather than passively. DIL may have some work to do with learning to be diplomatic, but honest and direct about why she has put distance into place. Passive aggressively helps no one.

(An aside on the toys issue- I’m not the toy police! I assure you I am not snobby about wood vs plastic. I was just trying to see what this potential cause of trouble could be. Toys are expensive and I do think most of us are grateful for such generosity.)

True that. Babies have personalities. So do mothers and MILs. No hard and fast rules. We respond to each according to need.

My first had a good routine, didn’t sleep through until 7 months. Second had no routine at all (born during lockdown so just me, toddler and newborn at home 24/7), slept 7 hours from 2 weeks and 9-6 from 8 weeks. It’s totally child dependent, some need more comfort and security at night than others, some need routine and others don’t.

Setting the idea that there’s a right way and a wrong way can make moms who’s children don’t sleep through from a young age feel bad about their parenting, when I’m reality a child will sleep through when they’re ready.

My first one (no routine) slept through the night from two weeks. Worried me a lot as it seemed too young. Weight gain was fine though so I tried to relax about it.

I agree with Daisy completely. I had four children, youngest now 30. All have children, bar one, who is pregnant with first.
I adhered to a strict regime of sleeping/ eating etc. All four of mine slept through the night from 11pm to 7am, from a month old, and only ever had problems with sleep if they were ill, so expected.
Two of my children followed this ‘ baby led’, advice, and have had so many problems with eating and sleeping. The whole thing seems daft to me. We’re almost saying you don’t need parents at all. My daughter is like you Daisy. Kept everything to her regime, and it’s really paid off...as it did with me. She looked at her SIL’s and decided she wasn’t having that!

I have to disagree with some of what daisy wrote too. I have no doubt that what she wrote is true for her experience and needs, but it did read a bit like we've all forgotten what it's like to be the mother of a young child. That's a bit patronising. I'm still young enough to have another baby if I wanted to and am still parenting teenagers. I work with young mothers who need support. I don't think that much has changed since my children were tiny. I always preferred wooden toys for my own children though didn't ban all plastic. There's some quality plastic toys too. Schedules have always been advised, probably even more so in my own mother's generation than now. There is more of an emphasis on going with the child's rhythms now. Mine were never very schedule oriented, so I went with that. Some kids like schedules, some don't. It's always been that way. The more kids you have, the harder it is to have a schedule too.

I remember well what it is like to have young children and what it is like to have a MIL with expectations. I think that's a personality thing, not an ignorant of parenting thing. Regardless, what should matter is that each mother has a way of parenting and it's her choice to make how that happens. MILs need to fall in with that and respect that this is not their child.

Daisy79

Sorry but I have to disagree with some of your points regarding ‘current guidelines’. I have a 3 year old, a 15 month old, am currently pregnant (and have spent the last 10 years studying and teaching child development!) and absolutely no where have I seen guidelines recommending a ‘strict schedule’. In fact I believe this is more the Gina Ford era, which is scorned by many mothers now and there’s a greater focus on a baby/toddler led schedule, following hunger and sleep cues, which are ever changing as they grow. HVs will ask how often they feed/sleep throughout the day but there is absolutely no expectation that you should have them on a strict schedule. Many moms (particularly first time moms) prefer it, which is absolutely fine, but it is not ‘the guidance’.

Also, as anyone with more than one child will know, you don’t get to have a strict schedule when you have a toddler and a baby, you just wing it day by day.

As for the toys. Yes there is lots of advice online about wooden toys and the potential (not actually proven, might I add) ‘toxicity’ of plastic toys. But in my experience, this is usually touted by mothers who prefer a certain look for their home (and have seen a few too many instamum accounts) and don’t want it cluttered with noisy, flashing plastic toys. My children have a mix of both wooden and plastic toys and it has not harmed their development in the slightest, both hitting all milestones early. And they bloody love a plastic monstrosity, toys should be about what the child likes, not the parent.

Also, regarding plastic vs wooden, many plastic toys last absolutely years. Many of ours are still in perfect condition for the 3rd child and will be passed on/taken to the charity shop either. Good quality plastic toys are not the same as single-use plastics at all. It’s about the longevity of any toy, wooden or plastic.

And I can assure you that in all the years I’ve worked in child development I have never met a child harmed by a lack of strict schedule as a baby or toddler, or a lack of wooden toys. Please don’t make the current generation of mothers sound neurotic.

Daisy79 your post was very nicely put, and well explained. Not in the least bit rude, or dismissive. It's good to hear the views from another perspective.

Most of us here are mums ourselves, and some of us may have had to deal with MiL issues, and sometimes DM issues too! None of us are perfect, and whilst many of us are experienced mothers, most of us are fully aware that things have changed since we had our own children. Now they are parents themselves, they have their own ideas/ways of parenting, and that needs to be respected. Also, we are learning to be grandparents, and just like parenthood, there is no handbook to teach us how to do it, but I would like to think that none of us set out to become the MiL from hell! Mostly, everything we do is out of love for our children, and our grandchildren.

Sometimes, it's a good idea to take a step back, and look at it from the other persons point of view ... that may be the MiL, or the DiL, depending on the situation. Try to understand why there may be issues, and not simply put blame on the other person. At the end of the day, we all want what's best for our adult children, and indeed our beautiful little grandchildren.

I’m a mother to an 18 month old who comes here time to time to try and improve my understanding of how my mil may feel.

Reading your post, a few things were familiar to me, so I wanted to address them from the point of view of a daughter in law and relatively new mother.

“ however whenever I ask to visit I usually get 1 1:2 hours before D-I-L says she needs bub to wind down for her nap or bedtime. Which is my cue to get going”
Unfortunately, this is the timeline we often operate on. Our days are centered around meals and sleep, with some playtime mixed in. I may be misunderstanding, but the language here suggests to me you expect more time regardless of this schedule and may not truly appreciate the child’s need for naps and bedtime. This may be a generational difference, but the current recommendations are that a strict schedule is essential. Aside from the importance to brain development, a strict sleep schedule is key to better behavior and helping a child sleep through the night. In my experience, the recommendations are spot on. Delaying sleep by even a half hour results in an overtired toddler and we, the parents, are the ones left to deal with it. My son’s sleep would be disrupted for DAYS any time made the mistake of not following his nap and bedtime schedule to a T. My MIL would often express (she’d whine, truthfully) that he didn’t seem tired, that his nap or bedtime was unnecessary, and that she hadn’t gotten enough time to play with him. As a mother, this made me angry and put me in an awkward position. While I knew she just wanted to spend time with our child, the deeper message I received was that she held her wants at a higher level of importance than our child’s needs. She wanted to play with him, but he needed sleep. As I’m sure you can understand, that didnt instill confidence.

“I am never given any time on my own with her and always heavily supervised so much so last week I didn’t even get the opportunity to read a book or play with her in anyway. I was expected to just sit and watch her play with her mum.”
I remember my MIL often pushed for alone time with our child, sometimes with some frequency and insistence that it made us uncomfortable and avoidant of visits. I knew my child would likely be safe with MIL and I had no intention to limit bonding. However, as mom, I was very attuned to my child’s sensitivities. He would cry and panic when I tried to leave the room. If I sat at a distance to give MIL space to play while also giving him the comfort of knowing I was there, my child naturally came running to me because I’m his mother. Of particular challenge was the way in which she approached play with him. Her way of speaking and playing were the polar opposite of what he’l was used to. On the one hand, you have your own way of doing things. On the other hand, the quickest way to make your grandchild feel safe and at ease is to mirror what he’s used to (in vocal level, pitch, speed, etc.).

“She hasn’t approved of anything I’ve ever given my granddaughter as a gift and won’t let her play with the toys I’ve given her.”
Have you asked for what kind of toys they DO approve of? The only toys my MIL gives are battery operated ones with lots of loud noises and flashing lights. We are, of course, grateful for any gift from grandma, but I will admit I have sometimes donated things that were just too loud or over stimulating. You didn’t specify what kind of toys they prefer, but the current generation of parents is constantly inundated with advice that we need to avoid battery operated toys in favor of simply toys that are educational and have multiple uses. Wooden toys are particularly popular and concerns about toxic plastics sometimes make us nervous, as well. We live in a world of screens and electronics, but the overwhelming advice is to limit that as much as possible for as long as possible.

“ I am not normally a person who lets others walk all over me but am fearful of rocking the boat as she has all the power in the relationship.”
I’m sure there is more history than you’ve shared, but I didn’t get the sense you were being walked all over based on these issues. These specific concerns sound more like boundaries and parental discretions that you disagree with. She may get the sense (correctly or not) that you don’t respect these boundaries and she therefore pushes you away as a form of protection.

I hear your sadness and do hope you will grow in relationship with your grandchild and daughter in law. I hope my feedback didn’t come off as rude or dismissive, as I am just trying to share some of why your DIL may be doing what she does. I know it’s difficult, but rather than focusing on power and whether things are being conducted on your terms, could you try and focus directly on this little bundle of joy who - I assure you - loves you and will have a bond with you?

Well Twinstar , I am in a similar position to yours. Or I was until the family emigrated to live with her parents (to help with childcare).

I tried hard to build a relationship with my DIL having had a great one with my own MIL. But nothing worked and I wasn’t being needy or ingratiating myself. DIL lived with me for some time and wld even take her meals into her bedroom. She was a jealous person, and possibly insecure, always wanting what her friends had even tho they were better off.

I did get the lovely task of helping out after my GS was born by Cesarean. But again was careful not to overstep the mark. When GD was born I offered to help again (another Cesarean) but was told by my son that they wanted to do things by themselves this time.

We did have some very rare nice moments but I always felt on my guard with her. My gifts were left lying in bags, earrings for her under the kitchen table, I sewed a baby patchwork cover which I saw lying on the floor of a cupboard and crocheted a baby shawl which I found under a mattress when I helped pack up the house when they left. These things really hurt.

But my grandchildren are now on the other side of the world. So however bad you think it is, you do see your GC.

I hope things get better for you as the wee one grows up. I’ve no advice to give other than accept your DIL is what she is. I know it hurts but you are seeing your GC. Enjoy that.