Disappointed in son

I sort of see why some commenters feel you’re looking for validation that you’re right rather than a variety of responses OP.

You’ve commented and said that you know you haven’t nagged despite in your OP saying that getting DS to attend family functions is a fight. Why is he so reticent to attend? Are there too many, is it work, COVID? These concerns aren’t magically going to disappear when he becomes a dad - if anything they may intensify as he’ll have another person in his life and they’ll be no 1 priority, shifting everyone else even further down the list.
Although you like your DIL, there appears to be conflict there too as your own assertion is that she’s purposely trying to exclude you and your extended family. Again - have you asked what’s going on? Have they gave any inkling as to any issues?

My point isn’t to waggle a finger at the evil, clingy MIL - not at all, I firmly see that you have your sons best interests at heart and want to enjoy parts of his new life with him and his own nuclear family. All I’m suggesting is that you maybe have a wee think about any conversations you have had or anything going on that may have caused this chasm? Or is it simply that you have mismatched expectations? You expect to see them once a week, they’re satisfied with every month (as an example).

I’d try and work on this with them before the baby is here, good healthy relationships pre-kids makes having one after much easier. And I know you want to see this baby, but please remember your DS and DIL are people worth investing in too - not just a way to access their child. Many people in their excitement sometimes forget to communicate that well, even though they feel it!

I wish you every success with this OP.

Honest to God, if someone was going to hold "a big celebration" at Christmas - in the middle of really high rates of Delta spreading - just as I was giving birth, and then try to come into my house with my recovering self and my brand new newborn, I would really be struggling to hold on to my smile. That is a legitimately risky proposition for your DIL and your incoming grandchild. I think if you are going to do a lot of heavy socialising over Christmas (which I do not in any way criticise), it is entirely fair for them to be way more cautious around you visiting. Do you have and take Lateral Flow Tests regularly? They would no doubt get some reassurance if you were offering to test the morning of any proposed visit. Still might not set their minds completely at ease, but it would show a willingness to acknowledge their concerns. Delta is legitimately dangerous for women in late pregnancy and in DIL's situation, I would also be avoiding large family gatherings.

I think blaming the DIL is absolutely ridiculous smileless giving the problems the OP has already caused herself between her and her son. And then going on to deny she could possibly be the problem at all....

The clothes argument was just laughable.

If the Op wants a relationship with her grandchild she needs to understand she holds no power.
It is a relationship built on want and mutual enjoyment. Something DILs family and her son are clearly getting.

My impression is that although OP said she wanted constructive criticism she only appeared to want to ‘hear’ the posts which supported her

I don't agree ...I think, as ever, that posters who have expressed their views in a way that can be "heard" by a poster are not "agreeing" ..they are just giving constructive criticism without being rude/unnecessarily unkind or making assumptions!!

Kassa may well have expressed herself badly in her original post. Frankly I think quite a few posters replying to her may well have been making valid points but have expressed themselves very badly too !

It is perfectly possible to give constructive criticism in a constructive way ...*Violet Skys* comments would be an example of this, she is not "agreeing" with the OP but Kassa is listening.

Most of what you say sounds reasonable but your desire to be at the birth is most certainly not!

Excellent post Discodancer
Original poster has definitely changed the story to lessen her demands which is good because by back tracking she has saved face and perhaps in her heart of hearts realised she needs to calm down a bit
I m glad you are starting to see it through outsiders eyes Kazza and even if all the answers are not what you expected you ve taken them on board and good for you
The best advice anyone can give new grandparents or new ‘parents in law’ is step back and wait to be asked without resentment You can love your children with all your heart but expectations of carry on as you did will always disappoint
Once a child marries you are no longer number one and however awful you think the in law is it’s your son or daughter choice so go with it

Smileless, I am confused as to who has an agenda? It really is quite baffling to me. Who in the heck would have an agenda on an online forum when talking to perfect strangers?

The OP has clarified that she did not mean be at the birth literally, but there were other things she stated that cause most of the respondents to this thread to think that she may be being unreasonable.

Statements such as "it is a fight to get him to attend", and of course not believing that the RCM is suggesting protocols to keep the baby safe both before and after the delivery lead posters here to believe she may have unreasonable expectations, not just the statement about the birth, which she has clarified to be incorrect.

The OP also mentioned that when they are together, she gets on well with DIL.

The majority of people on this thread have suggested she speak with her son and discuss expectations with her son. I think that is good advice. No agenda in that.

JaneJudge

He just sounds like he is in love. I'm sure they'll get involved in family gatherings eventually. They'll want other babysitters for a start

This attitude of “they’ll want babysitters” just sets people up for disappointment.

They’ll see themselves as used for babysitting

Or worse, the expected requests never materialize and they are even more dissatisfied.

Let’s not set people up to fail.

I think it depends Dinahmo. We were married in 1980 and my in laws had a lot of contact with us and our boys. They had the boys for sleepovers, baby sitting and days out. We had a few holidays with them too.

They were far more involved with the children than my own mother who simply wasn't as interested.

TBH I don't know what, if any expectations my m.i.l. had but she always told me how grateful she was for the time they got to spend with us as family, and with the boys on their own.

You say that you had children, you decided that your in laws would never have got to meet them. Presumably your husband agreed as that is not decision you have the right to make without his agreement.

I agree theworriedwell that the OP worded her OP badly and has since posted that she hadn't meant she wanted to be present at the birth. Despite doing so, there are still some who continue to criticise her for saying something that she didn't mean literally.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the OP's relationship has "soured" due to her d.i.l.'s coercive control Bibbity. I'm not saying that is the reason and I hope for Kazza's sake that it isn't as when that happens, there's nothing the parent(s) can do.

That said it can happen, and there are several GN members who can attest to that so IMO it shouldn't be simply dismissed because some are unable/unwilling to consider it a possibility or because it doesn't fit with some posters' agenda.

When the relationship between AC and parent(s) changes to the extend that Kazza's appears to have done following their AC's marriage, it's a red flag, whether some choose to acknowledge it or not.

When my future MIL found out that I and my then boyfriend were living together she was horrified and refused to have anything to do with me. This was in the early seventies. My own parents took a totally different view. I can't say that they were happy about but they did give us a moving in present when we moved into our first proper home. The estrangement lasted about 4 years.

I decided that should I have children my in laws would not get to meet them. I didn't have children so I didn't have to carry that out (not that I told her if my thoughts)

When we got married my OH notified them and they asked to come. They spoke to me as if nothing had happened and as though they'd seen me recently.

As it happens their grand daughter (when a young adult) told them that if they continued to tell her off she would not see them again.

It seems to me that parents and grandparents expect to be a lot more involved in their childrens' lives than those of my generation did.

Wise words VioletSky. My impression is that although OP said she wanted constructive criticism she only appeared to want to ‘hear’ the posts which supported her. We can only read what the OP has said, and whilst her words appear perfectly clear each time and on the face of them incapable of misinterpretation, as theworriedwell points out, she then goes on to contradict herself and castigates those who have made comments based on her clear statements.
I have been puzzled by these ‘family celebrations’, something I would think don’t happen that often in the families I know, even before covid prevented large gatherings. I wondered if this is a cultural or religious thing and that failing to join in is a ‘bad thing’. Or if there is a matriarchal hierarchy here meaning that OP expects a high degree of involvement in the children’s lives? Perhaps OP could enlighten me.

Elless

Thank you for coming back and clarifying KazzaSJ, it is hard to write down how you feel and people can misinterpret your post and exaggerate any negatives. I hope you feel better.

I don't think anyone misinterpreted what was written, the OP said, "We are not even allowed to be at the birth." Maybe she didn't mean what she said but I don't think it is anyone's fault for thinking that meant she expected to be allowed to be at the birth.

A wise friend said to me recently that some people think being disagreed with = bullying.

That really struck a chord with me.

It is being stuck so firmly in your own world view that you cannot accept any kind of criticism or disagreement with your own actions and can only see yourself as an everlasting victim of other people's behaviour.

This means that absolutely no change happens. There is no self reflection, no apology and no personal growth.

It always takes two people do have a disagreement and it's not about who is more at fault. It is about who is capable of taking responsibility for their own actions and reactions.

Talk to your son and DIL Kazza listen to what they say when you ask them why they are pulling away. Listen and change and then you can have a discussion about how to keep everyone in this relationship happy and find a compromise.

....Exactly. He doesn't want to even call. And instead of thinking about why hat relationship soured (and it's clear by what she's posted why this may be happening) the blame is being placed onto him and his wife.

I'm glad that you've found some of the responses helpful and that you're feeling better about the situation Kazza.

I don't see anything in the OP's posts to suggest that she expects her son to attend family gatherings out of "obligation and duty" Bibbity. This is something he used to do before he was married.

Obviously things change but having less time available for family gatherings is one thing, not making 'phone calls is another one entirely.

If you'd read my last post properly March you would see that I said that a married man's mother's feelings should not take precedence over his wife's and children's but that doesn't mean they should be totally disregarded. There should be and needs to be room for both.

IMO you have no need to apologise for being either pushy or unreasonable Kazza but for being over enthusiastic. As I posted earlier, you have to have experienced a once close relationship with an AC becoming distanced once they marry, to the extent that you feel you've become persona non grata, to appreciate how upsetting it is.

I hope you'll be able to have a talk with your son and d.i.l. during which you can all talk about your expectations and see how best they can be met for all concerned.

After all, isn't that what happy and healthy families do?

I hope things work out for you.

OP

Stand back. Apologize for being so pushy and unreasonable.
Drop your expectations and let them invite you around as they feel comfortable.

It may not be the level of access you want but it is a start. Let the relationship with the new family grow organically

The more you chase your agenda, the more they will run away.

But you are expecting him to have a relationship and attend out of obligation and duty.

You need to understand that that is not real.

From here on out his relationship with you and your family needs to be through want. And mutual respect. He is your equal.

So rather than get indignant. Why not look into why he doesn't want to socialise with you all?

Kazza Sorry if you feel some responses are harsh, but we were just trying to be honest, which I think has helped you, because you have made a turnaround from your original post.
I think you’ve re thought your wording, which means you can see what people are saying, or you made a mistake saying them.

1. You talk about the girlfriend’ snubbing’ you all. Just using that word, makes you sound hostile and expectant. If I was her, that alone would put me off. Far better to say something like ‘ she doesn’t seem to want to join our family celebrations, but could just be shy’

2.’ It’s a fight to get him to attend any family celebration’ This suggests pressure...so nagging would fit the Bill, even though you didn’t mention that actual word.

3. ‘ we are not even allowed to be at the birth’. Only says one thing. Been discussed.

You said ‘ any advice would be appreciated’. Some of it was hard to hear I’m sure, but your subsequent posts seem to suggest you have understood, and are now tying to backtrack.

I can only say, please just back off and enjoy what you have. It’s not too late, and some time in the future, things will hopefully be very different.

I think it’s helpful to have somewhere to go to put your feelings into words and as you say misinterpretation and negative exaggeration from others. I am surprised at some of the negative views too.
But I have also received some very helpful and pleasant messages. But because of this I have decided on the way forward. I don’t usually get involved in social media as I think it gives others with their own agenda somewhere to vent.
But I do feel better now so thank you.

Kazza, you say you're not unreasonable but you said it is a fight to get your son to attend family events. That right there is unreasonable. You are imposing an obligation onto him and not accepting his no. If you are fighting him to attend, you are applying pressure and trying to change his mind. Even that one thing is a red flag and suggests you need to stop imposing your will on them. Of course they will keep a distance if you are not respecting their autonomy as adults. I'd temper your grandma expectations about how things should be.

Of course he's still a son but he's a father and husband first.
A grown man with a family of his own.

Putting your wife's wishes and wants of the health of herself and baby when she's heavily pregnant and just had a baby come BEFORE the wants and wishes of a grandparent.

Priority is mother and baby and their wellbeing.

Thank you for coming back and clarifying KazzaSJ, it is hard to write down how you feel and people can misinterpret your post and exaggerate any negatives. I hope you feel better.

I think I agree with what March is saying there.

We raise our children to be autonomous adults and when we have achieved that we take a step back and allow them to make their own decisions and choices, take what they have learned from us or do things their own way or what is most ususal, a mixture of both.

Their spouses and children will always come first, that is the duty and responsibility we taught them growing up when we put our spouses and children first.

Having good relationships with wider family is wanted and wonderful but everyone involved has to work for it. In most families methods, society, opinions and understanding never stops changing and nothing we know about anything is ever a fixed point.

Thank you Nell8, I have to take a step back and relax. I am sure DS will change when baby is born. I am sure his GF has been listening to many scare stories which is worrying for her and with the pandemic scares understandable and they have to think of their own health and that of the newborn.
I will leave it for now but I will speak to DS and explain why I feel as I do. Obviously if he insists on excluding himself and family there is nothing I can do about it. I always thought having a first GC was supposed to be exciting, but we shall see.

Kazza The Covid business has been difficult for everyone and many expectant mums have been very anxious and needing the support of their loved ones even more than usual. They also have the ongoing worry of whether their relatives might be at risk as winter looms closer. So I think it's natural they will want to feel they are in a safe, familiar nest as the birth draws closer. Our first grandchild was born last October. In the preceding months our son was rarely in contact with us or his brother as he struggled to cope with his job, supporting our DiL and the emotional adjustment to becoming a dad for the first time. Once the baby arrived he started sending us photos on WhatsApp and we did manage to see the new family for a couple of hours about 2 weeks after the birth which had been pretty traumatic for them both. I'm sure your son will want to tell his mum the good news when baby arrives and hopefully he'll start sending photos too. I would just say you might have to wait longer than you'd like before you feel welcome as a visitor. DS and DiL were in a state of complete exhaustion for weeks until the baby decided she would stop staying awake for most of the night!
It sounds to me as if your son's partner has been listening to lots of advice and probably scare stories from other new mums and is thinking ahead as to what will work best for her when the time comes. Her maternal instincts will be making her very self centred and inward looking as the time gets closer.
Sorry, I've waffled on for ages ( had a sleepless night myself). If you're still there I'd just say please try to relax about it all. There will be more emotional up and downs to come but I'm sure it'll all work out fine. Good luck to you all