Help Needed but How?

Yes to censorious judgement. When I returned to work after 2nd mat leave, I asked to job share, a fairly novel idea in the mid 80’s. Adverts had applicants my manager didn’t want to appoint, having seen the applications I agreed with him. By then, I’d been back a couple of months, using leave to work 3 days a week. The nature of my work meant in effect I was full time. I agreed to return full time. My manager was pleased to have my skills back but said ‘of course, you know my view is you should be at home with your children’. I asked how long he’d given up work to care for his 5 children. He looked surprised

Iam64 I am totally in agreement with you. I think the censorious judgements of the generation below them have always been there. I can remember the generation above us being shocked and worried about our generation, the 60s generation, because we all wanted washing machines and holidays in Majorca.

Anyway, with the average age for a first child now reaching 30 and most children being born to mothers in their 30s, the idea of 'young' parents doesn't really apply any more.

I think some people are just born with inflexible minds and cannot understand anyone who does anything differently to them.

When I was coming back to work and was telling a very traditional friend how DH and I had discussed how to best use our work leave to provide care for our children in the holidays (we lived nowhere near our parents, who all worked), she was genuinely shocked that DH would be expected to do this and for years sat like a vulture on a fence waiting for our marriage to fall apart.

I expect many of us come from families where both parents worked.
My family history shows from the mid 19th century to 1950’s both parents worked. Originally in agricultural work in the south east, then to the mills and mines in the north west . The agricultural work dried up, the industrial revolution provided work. By the late 19th century my great great great gran had been abandoned by her (drunken) husband. She was living alone with her 7 children, those aged 11 upwards worked, like their mum, in the local mill.
Similar history on my maternal side.
My mum had cared for her younger sibs, from the age of 11, from before and after school as both parents worked. She was a typical 50’s mum, stayed home, determined we children would have mum at home.
Next generation, me and my sisters all worked when our children were young. Those children are now mid/late 30’s. Yes, both parents work

Apologies for such a long, personal post. I’m sure my family history is not dissimilar to many. My point is my family history shows strong supportive families, working mothers or not. I’m sick of the judgemental comments about young parents ‘who want it all’. The families I know aren’t like that and I don’t accept it as a generic description

Working, is working is working. A career is what you refer to once it is over!!

You can have a career as a solicitor and a career as a carer

I have always worked, does working count , or is it only important if it is a career.?

The evidence is with the children

^Now everyone wants a bigger house, a new kitchen, two flash cars, an extension plus children whom they have little time for.
It is the children who suffer because parents want it all.^

Blimey O'Riley, well that puts as all to rights. Forget poverty, children who would starve without the mother's wage, forget the current cost of housing, whether buying or renting, which means 2 incomes are essential. Forget families living in cramped housing because that is all the parents can afford, Forget the need to produce any evidence of any kind to support a sweeping statement like this. Just let your prejudices all hang out.

I know that my mother, grandmother, great grandmother and great great grandmother worked. As Irish immigrants during the Famine with 3 children and more to come, my GGGM had no alternative, neither did my GGM ad GM. Both widowed in their 30s, one with 5 children, the other with 2 children an invalid sister and a mother to support.

They also had close and loving families, children who thrived and were close to their mothers. My mother didn't need to work but did and so did I.

When I read all the stories of estrangement on GN, I am so grateful that my family has been spared that - and many of the other problems that beset families and then here is someone making statements like the above, When I look at my family and the, now, 6 generations of children who have been born to and thrived with working mothers, I can only say the more children with working mothers the better it is for them.

Yet another thread about working parents that’s led to a flood of cold, critical, judgemental comments.
‘It’s the children who suffer because parents want it all”

Where is the evidence for that statement ?

In the past families lived on one salary and had a lifestyle to suit. I know that had I chosen to work we would have been able to afford a bigger house in a better area. Instead our children had full time parenting as we didn’t bring children into this world to farm them out to others in their formative years.
Now everyone wants a bigger house, a new kitchen, two flash cars, an extension plus children whom they have little time for.
It is the children who suffer because parents want it all.

Bridgeit No it isn't. Many families have to have both parents working to get a roof over their head and food on the table.

It is not ‘ in your plate’ it is a life style of your choice .

I don't understand posters who say it is very difficult to be a 2 working parent family - it is not easy but it is not the Everest either

Plenty of both parents in the family work.

It is not rocket science to organize child care, work and life - it is what is in our plate and we learn to cope.

It is very difficult when both parents work . However as they are both high flyers I imagine they are in the fortunate position of being able to pay for help with their children. An au pair would seem a perfect solution, you take care and ensure you are not doing too much.

I find it very strange too that both parents are having issues making these arrangements

NanaPlenty

Hi lovely people, I’m hoping some of you might have some good ideas or have been in similar situations with some wise words….My daughter (late thirties) and son in law have two children aged boy 10 and girl 8. As parents they both have increasingly high flying career roles. The children have always been well looked after but this is becoming difficult… I clean for them once a week and spend time with the children but am neither young enough or live near enough to take on any more. My daughter recognises that they need some sort of help but doesn’t know how to start or what sort of person she needs. The main areas are taking to and from school/supervision with homework and probably some help in the holidays. I feel worried that the children spend too much time on screens and occupying themselves (nothing unusual I know). I just thought I’d put it out there see if anyone has any pearls of wisdom to pass on. Thanks in advance.

I would have thought that if their intelligent enough to work high flying jobs they would have the means to search and try to fix their child care. It has got to the serious situation where high mortgages and standards of living along with childrens' expensive school trips and all the activities children seem to need certainly makes sure two high incomes are needed. It's a normal way of life for a lot of couples. My own son and family live in the Netherlands so I am in Scotland and my dil's mum is in Poland so they never had either of us for babysitting duties unless we were there on holiday. They used the minimum paid help by organising their work hours and both of them are in very good jobs but I also think the companies they work for are more geared to family life.

do they know another couple who are in a similar boat? I had a friend who organised with another mother and they sorted out what suited them so that they paid a decent wage to a young woman who saw one families children off in the morning and took the younger members of both families to school. In the afternoon she brought the younger ones home and provided tea for them and for the older children who walked home themselves. I think they ended up where she spent one week afternoons in one house and they all came there and then the next week in the other house. sounds a bit complicated but was actually well run and was able to deal with things like late football or netball or clubs or whatever. To do this though the couples need to have similar attitudes to what the children are allowed to do, and do they have a snack or a meal when they get back etc, but the children are well looked after and know they have someone who can sort little emergencies so lost bus pass etc out.

ajswan back in the 1950s when I was a child, my mother worked, at a time when that was quite unusual, and I cannot ever remember being remotely bothered by it. I had loving and involved parents who were there if we needed them.

Oddly, the only time I got upset was on a day my mother was not working, and I came home from school early for some reason and she was not there. She had nipped out to the shops.

Strangely, the same thing happened with my children. The only time they wanted me and I was not there, I had taken a day off, once to take one of them to a hospital appointment, the other to fetch my parents-in-law, who were coming to stay.

Like SueDonim, on my mother's side women have always worked, whether they were married or not. Unlike previous generations my mother could have stayed at home, but chose not to, and returned to work when her youngest child reached school age, and I did exactly the same.

M0nica

Here is a link to the trade association for au pairs.
bapaa.org.uk/.

If your daughter and SiL have such high powered, high flying careers, how come they are unable to find out for themselves how to get suitable domestic staff?

I find this odd too. Childminders do wrap around childcare.

Ladywee
I hope you are being sarcastic with your comments

Do we tell them to be less gay and go back to the good old ways?

But what if there are 2 mothers? Or 2 fathers?

My youngest, who is a doctor, hasn’t settled down yet but no doubt if she becomes a mother and decides to work part time people will then complain about doctors never being at work

SueDonim all the GPs at our surgery are part-time; some have children and I assume they juggle the childcare with their husbands, wives, partners.

Historically, staying at home with children has been a 20th century phenomenon
My mother worked, part-time but from when I was about 4 I think.
Perhaps she was unusual.

What a load of nonsense, Ajswan. You make it sound as though motherhood used to be some sort of utopia and that all children led some sort of cutesy Ladybird book lifestyle.

Historically, staying at home with children has been a 20th century phenomenon. Prior to that women had always worked, be it in the fields, in factories or working at home. Of course, the upper classes ‘farmed out’ their children too, but I suppose that was ok because they were rich.

All of my dc with children are ‘high flyers’ and their spouses, too. As far as I can see, my grandchildren have lovely lives (pandemic notwithstanding) and they have a wider experience of life than my own dc were able to.

My youngest, who is a doctor, hasn’t settled down yet but no doubt if she becomes a mother and decides to work part time people will then complain about doctors never being at work.

Totally agree ajswan. If you want a life full of big shiny things, don’t have children.