Grandchildren out of control

Why not invite the two families to stay with you separately? You could have an enjoyable visit from your younger daughter and her family.
I'd be concerned they'll become increasingly unwilling to visit in years to come. Having to suffer this bad behaviour is not fair on them or a good example to their own children.

Hi, it seems to me that the unruly children have the power here, their Mother unfortunately little or none. If nothing changes, nothing changes. What a great pity 2 children have the capacity to spoil what could/should be precious family time. V3ra has made what seems to be the answer, if yr daughter is unable to discipline her son’s effectively, that is to have the 2 families visit separately. Your other daughter might be making this the preferred option soon anyway. A great pity as some behaviour modification could ensure you all enjoy each other’s visits at the same time. I can understand you want to have family unity, but, it’s got to be enjoyable for all.

Hi. Recognise this scenario so well.....apart from the swearing ...children that is ?. Love all my grandchildren and it is an all too rare joy to see them all together BUT my son and daughter have very different parenting styles.
This does not usually cause problems during joint visits to our home....Grandma's rules apply equally to all... but as we live in different parts of the country I have on a few occasions organised joint trips away to holiday rentals. Suffice to say each time I have sworn never again. Parents have each applied their own rules for their own offspring resulting in mounting tensions whilst I tie myself in knots trying to diffuse any potential fall outs. The grandchildren in the meantime get along famously and love spending time together ?‍♀️.
So for us it will be ( short ) joint visits to our home only until the children are older ( and their parents grow up!!).
Strangely I can't recall any similar problems when our children were young, it was just accepted that people had different ideas on parenting. In company we just let the youngsters get on with it, they knew any lapse in the usual rules were a special treat.

What is the age difference with your other two grandchildren? Is this behaviour typical for the 8 yr old or is it only when he is with his cousins?

Both daughters haven’t seen each other since the pandemic/ nor the cousins. I think my youngest will prefer in the end to visit separately- which as you say is a shame.
My issue is if I say anything to my eldest daughter she will take offence.
We had the children often before they moved abroad and behaviour has always been a problem as the eldest GS has ADHD - but it’s got worse since we’ve had no input - my daughter says Sweden has a more relaxed attitude to swearing and that’s the line she is taking - feel we are between a rock and a hard place

Trouble is if you don't say anything, and the two children are allowed to carry on swearing when they visit you, then everyone else will be offended ?

This ultimately isn’t good for any of you, and stops you having a good time, such that you may as well see them separately. I would think eventually, you won’t be seeing your older daughter and her family at all if it carries on like this.

What does your son in law do when his sons behave like this? It sounds like, although your daughter does tell them off...this is just to appease you, as in Sweden it’s so much more relaxed, she probably doesn’t bother!

Mixed messages I would think. If it were me, I would start by saying you’re going to have to have them separately, until the older boys can behave better.

Look after yourselves, and don’t put up with it.

This must be difficult for your elder daughter Dressagediva123, she may well feel embarrassed in the company of her younger sister whose children's behaviour is less challenging and she could interpret any advice or offers of assistance as being judgemental of her own parenting. She too may welcome separate visits.
I think you may have to accept that for now separate visits would be more enjoyable and comfortable for all concerned and that you can only offer support to your eldest in her parenting choices. It is difficult to watch our children struggle and it is natural to want to step in and assist.....but only when welcomed.

Some parents do not believe in villages

Others do but they pick their village

I would coordinate visits in the future a way that works for everybody, even if it means both sisters and cousins will not spend time together.

We feel between a rock & a hard place at the moment- the eldest boy has ADHD and the behavioural problems have always been there- but it’s had an adverse affect on the youngest with regard to his behaviour .
My girls used to be so close - it was the first time since the pandemic we have all got together- so expectations were high I guess. Hey ho

Three sets of grandchildren - all very different - here.

One daughter parents 'normally' (to me), another is very focussed on her kids, kind, considerate and patient (or 'soft') - and I've been in trouble for 'shouting' at them when I didn't realise I had. (I do feel sorry for that daughter, with her kids in charge.)

My son is very strict with his - and they have lovely manners (but I feel so sorry for them). When we all get together here, I tend to rule the roost. I'm not controlling, just fair.

On trips out, or in their homes, I watch the chaos and keep my mouth shut. Oh, but do I laugh! When my lot complain about their kids, I just say 'Serves you right, you're getting back exactly what you gave!'

The youngest’s behaviour has got steadily worse as he’s grown - he is fine when the two are separated- as is the older one. I fear they have no boundaries / she does try to instill some but they don’t listen and 10 mins later they’re off again. Her partner doesn’t help either with any discipline - although she wasn’t with her on the last visit.
My DH is very good with the eldest when he was younger we would take him off somewhere quiet / but now he’s older it’s not so easy. We don’t see them that often so we don’t want to be telling them off anyway but you can’t allow outright delinquency can you ? / do I say anything to her directly and risk isolating her and us ?

Is the boys' behaviour causing them problems at school?
Or is it more a problem when they're together at home?

No...even more reason to get it right if you don’t see them very often.

I see all my grandchildren regularly, so sometimes of course they’re going to have ‘ off days’, the parents as well.....but if you’re not seeing them very often, how sad to have it spoiled by something which should be easy to sort out.

What delinquency are we talking about here?

If DGS does have diagnosed ADHD he may need treatment for that . Does he get treatment in Sweden ? I'm sure that their services are good I was just interestedhaving worked in SEN myself?

I also think separate visits for now, would your DD take a word from your DH better than from you?

Yes -V3ra - the eldest boy has had problems at school - he’s only just been diagnosed with ADHD
Although they have both coped well with the move and speak the language fluently which is amazing.
The youngest has anger issues and I wonder if he has found moving abroad difficult.
As for the delinquent behaviour’ kicking out and screaming abuse being violent ‘ he kicked my middle grandson in his private parts - it hurt very much. He was made to say sorry but I’m not sure he understood the gravity of what he had done.

Soozikinzi Yes he is seeing a psychiatrist now - and he is learning how to moderate his behaviour somewhat - he’s very loving / we are a loving family despite it all . I always say how much I love and miss them - we speak and FT regularly

I am sorry, that is not delinquent behaviour

Adhd is being addressed - his parents are taking care of his medical needs.

Please let them parents as they wish

My understanding is that
- your daughters eldest child ( aged 12) is the one who has been diagnosed with ADHD. Is that correct? He is presumably being supported with learning strategies to help him manage life? Presumably his parents will also be receiving support on how to help their son navigate life, society and challenges!

- your daughters younger child (aged 8) is causing concern with his behaviour
-is he also being assessed re ADHD? If not, his parents may well be considering asking for that
- his kicking out etc certainly suggests very deep seated frustration and anger.
-his elder brothers ADHD has probably impacted hugely on his life!
-clearly as he is working with a psychiatrist now his difficulties have been recognised and his parents are ensuring he gets the help he needs!

In these circumstances it seems best to have visits separately for the time being. That way the children won't suffer negatively from being each others company!

All you can fo is support the parents with what they have decided is the best way to parent from any advice they have been given. It's difficult to watch but if the parents don't want your help and advice then there is little point trying to give it!

Hi, my circumstance is similar. Following thru on behavior issues is almost null when it comes to my daughter in law and son's parenting. They have only one child who is 3 and you'd think with parents it wouldn't be so difficult. I see alot of bad behavior erupting and it is very difficult for me and them. It causes me alot of anxiety especially now that they are staying with me for just a few weeks.

Dressagediva has identified the problem in her first post:
they fight constantly ( 12 & 8 ). .... she constantly tells them off about their behaviour but they don’t listen / she threatens them but doesn’t carry out the consequence.

ADHD is not an excuse for violent behaviour and the mother is not addressing the children's needs nor following the advice and strategies she will have been given to deal with their problems. They need clearly defined boundaries and consistent rewards and sanctions to feel secure and I doubt if the move to Sweden will have helped.. Controlling their behaviour is time-consuming and exhausting but it can be done and preparing for different and potentially difficult situations is essential. Rounding on people who are trying to help is probably a defence mechanism on the part of the daughter
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I think whole family visits are not appropriate at this time. You and your husband were acting thoughtfully in giving the boys time apart from each other; try and talk to your daughter and ask her to discuss the strategies she will have been given for helping the boys, things like timetables, pre-planning , time-out when overwhelmed , etc so you can all be consistent in your approach.
Parents who work with professional advice can help their children but if they expect the school/psychiatrist to sort it all out, or worse still, depend on drugs, it won't happen.
I have great sympathy for your daughter and she is in a difficult situation as it sounds as though the boys' father is not there to help with them, but she has to face up to these problems before she can overcome them.

Dressagediva .. just been in a similar situation myself. Made worse by the fact that I can’t discuss the problem with my family as it would cause tension among them. It’s made/making me thoroughly miserable.