Should we ask for a contribution?

Dorothy, you and your DH are very much needed by your DD and GCs. You must decide how to reduce the amount you do for them. Lots of helpful suggestions here.
Are you getting any fun time for yourselves? Even inviting friends in for drinks or going out on a trip to eg an NT property. We all need relaxation and enjoyment.

The pariah comment to your daughter is very unkind

I was an honest expression of how they felt which they are entitled to express!!

Unless anybody put a gun to your head and you had no choice but to provide childcare for years, this is a choice YOU made, sacrifice your social and work commitments so you could spend time with your gc

Such choices are rarely made as a "one off". When you become deeply involved in supporting another person its usually a process that creeps up on you, drip drip drip.

You begin by doing one kind act. Then they ask you to do something else, and So it goes on. You feel mean refusing because you know it will mean tears or reproaches. Soon you are doing all their shopping, making all their phone calls, paying their bills at the post office and so on. Ive had this happen to me and I consider myself to be a powerful and assertive woman.

So I think your judgement is a bit harsh.

I felt so sad reading all this (I have read all the comments). You must feel so despairing. I do loads for my DD and SIL and have the kids a lot, do early school runs to save the kids from being farmed out etc. I do get lots of thanks and it matters so much. It's lovely that your daughter came round and made things better, but I am assuming that it will happen again. I think you are the reason the GC have a chance of growing up with some happiness, living with a put down mum and a controlling dad can't be easy. I know how tired and worn I feel a lot of the time and how I wish to be able to live a different version of my life, but I know things will change eventually. I hope things change for the better for you both too.

So many grandparents, not gc

Op

The pariah comment to your daughter is very unkind

How about offering support to her instead of scolding her like a child because your feelings were hurt?
She has been down before, I hope she is getting help for it

Unless anybody put a gun to your head and you had no choice but to provide childcare for years, this is a choice YOU made, sacrifice your social and work commitments so you could spend time with your gc
So if you feel used, it is because you chose to continue to childcare instead of addressing it with the parents of the gc when your resentment started

As for not having "quality time with the gc", so many gc would love to be in your position

Every second you spend with your gc is quality time - because you don't do the activities you want to do with them doesn't mean they won't remember fondly of the time you spent with them

Pleased you are feeling better Dorothy and hope things improve but as you say, this has happened before, so still think you should slowly cut back on the frequency of care.

Time to get involved in something else (choir, book club - ANYTHING) and then you will truthfully be able to say, sorry, no we have something on. They are being rude and exploitative.

I was puzzled to see that there was no mention of what SIL does in this family dynamic, surely they're his children too?

Either way, I would approach the situation like this: Don't directly ask for any monetary contribution, actually the cost of all you do is not really the main issue is it. Rise above DD hostility and be a grown-up and ignore her little spats but do take the opportunity to strike up conversation by saying "Dad and I were chatting on the way home the other evening and we wondered if you have a contingency plan for if we are ill, have an accident or an appointment? We wouldn't be able to help out like we do would we?" At that point you could say "after all, we aren't getting any younger are we"?

Just a thought Dorothy but I have to say that I think your DD and SIL are taking the proverbial.

I’ve heard that coercive controllers like to isolate their partners, so your presence in your daughter’s household, much as your SIL may show resentment, is worthwhile and could be making a very positive difference, not just in terms of the practical help you’re providing, but emotionally, too, so it’s we’ll worth maintaining.

Financial matters could legitimately be raised without causing offence, also reducing the amount you do and the time you devote to the family, but perhaps negotiate something more manageable for you while still assuring your daughter and your grandchildren of your supportive presence in their lives. It sounds as though that is what you and they need most in this situation.

I'm pleased to read your latest update, Dorothy and that things are better between you and your DD.

I was going to post this morning that They won't know how you feel unless you tell them, but reading your update about your SIL does put a different light on the situation.
Your SIL sounds as if he could turn things against you although he would be foolish to do so.

You say he's controlling and you have probably witnessed this but could he bit a bit jealous of the close relationship between you, your DD and the DGC and hence come out with snide remarks?

He really needs to spend a bit more time doing things with his children otherwise they'll be left home and he will look back and realise what he missed.

We often have to reschedule work commitments to fit in with grandkids needs, and cancel social invitations.
Sometimes our grandparently duties leave us too tired or too busy to work, and we have to pay for extra help

No, that is not right and you need to find the balance where you can work and enjoy a social life as well as help out with the DGC sometimes.

Good luck, you need to tread carefully but at least you've cleared the air with your DD.

It sounds like an unhealthy situation with you all enabling your SIL's behaviour.. I think it would probably be of benefit for your DD to receive counselling..

I am glad I have just read your update OP, as I had formed the opinion that it was not the financial outlay which lay at the bottom of your unhappiness, but the feeling of being taken for granted.
Perhaps now things are better you may reach the right time to establish a level of childcare which suits you all, taking into account your own health, and, if relevant, your financial position.

Good idea BlueBelle, it won't seen so hard if it isn't both of uou every time.

I agree with Monica.

UPDATE - DD just came round, gave me a big hug and said sorry 🥲. She explained she was depressed and overtired, but knew she shouldn’t have taken it out on us. I told her it’s fine to be tired and grumpy, but just to tell us next time, rather than manifesting it at us in a way that made us feel like pariahs!
Anyway we’ve had this from DD in the past and it can go on for days or even weeks, so this is a good result and I feel much better about it all.
The long term situation unfortunately is what it is. It’s not good, but I can bear it as long as things ok between me and DD.

I would never want to be paid for any childcare but then I never had any unfairness money was always left for shopping for them or food etc and I don’t drive so buses and stuff like that I never thought of just part of it ….BUT…you seem to be doing the main ‘bringing up’ ‘ looking after’ ‘taking around’ so I think you really are being taken advantage of

our daughter is put upon, overworked, and lonely Is this the clue ? Why your daughter is taking you for granted and passing her miseries on to you in her hostility now I ve read your second post obviously your daughter is a very very unhappy controlled lady who you rightly want to help and you have taken much advice over so my take is this

For the sake of the grandkids and your daughter especially, continue if you can here’s one idea would it be possible to divide your ‘out of the house care’ and not both go to everything
Divide it so some days husband helps some days you help at least that way you continue the support but get down rest time
Same with the running round dropping of take it in turns don’t both do everything dividing the workload will surely be helpful
Good luck it’s a really tricky one Dry your tears bite the bullet and see what small changes you can make to relieve yourselves

I understand your wish for family times without being ‘on duty’ Dorothy.
When our dds are struggling we want to help but you are doing a lot and what you do seems to be taken fir granted.
Hope you have a conversation with her today and from that decide if you need to pull back a bit. Be less available, have a holiday, look after yourselves.

dorothyL You really should have included your last post with your OP because it completely changes the situation. It sets a context for your situation.

I would reverse suggestions that you do not ask for money. You need to be present for your daughter, but you need to be up front about what it is costing you and ask for a subvention to help you meet the cost.

Either you can’t afford it, or it’s too much commitment, have a 2 week holiday then cut childcare to 2 days a week. You are being taken for granted, reducing the hours will reduce the cost and stress.

Thank you everybody, you have given me sound advice and a lot to think about.
OK I can see that there’s general agreement we shouldn’t ask for money, and I take that on - I probably wouldn’t feel right doing so anyway.
Several people asked what SIL does. He works from home most days but works abroad sometimes for a week or two at a time. DD is alone this week and next, hence we stay later - when he’s home we usually leave by 5.30 or 6pm.
He works long hours and has zero involvement, whether home or not, in childcare or any other household responsibilities.
We think he is a coercive controller, but DD won’t hear a word said against him. We have had a tacit agreement for many years that we won’t discuss him with her, as she won’t have it.
If you know about coercive control, you may know that victims often staunchly defend their abusers and insist that they are happy and nothing is wrong. However we have seen our DD transformed from the person she was into a lonely, exhausted shadow of herself.
On professional advice we stand by her, and try to continue to give love and support. Mostly we succeed, but sometimes it is particularly hard, eg if SIL is behaving particularly badly, or when DD is in a terrible state, or when we are treated especially rudely, as happened yesterday.
The grandchildren depend on us. Though SIL is mostly home, DD is effectively a single parent in terms of his input (other than financial - he earns a good income).
Though DD does the overwhelming bulk of the work of childcare, we share this work to a regular extent, to ease her burden, support her against her abusive SIL, and to give our grandchildren the benefit of having other loving and supportive people in their lives, apart from their mum (she is a fantastic mum).
We couldn’t possibly back out of their lives, and have accepted that this is how our lives will be, until the grandkids are a bit older and more independent.
I know this might all seem wrong to people not dealing with coercive control in the family, but we’ve taken advice, and spoken to lots of survivors and experts. All of them support our decision to stand by DD and grandkids.
I don’t see a solution, but I do thank you for your helpful and thoughtful advice.
We won’t ask for money, but as @Cocopops advised, we will try to talk to DD today at least just about last night. I will ask her if something in particular was wrong, and was she aware of how she behaved to us, and could she please try to be aware that we need a bit of appreciation and not to feel unwelcome when helping out.
Thank you again everyone. I needed to share, and sharing has helped, and your thoughtful responses have made me feel calmer and less hopeless. 🙏🏼

I have every sympathy you both sound massively put upon, I just wouldn't ask for money it's a bit of a red line that could be blown up into a massive issue and used against you.

You need to speak to your daughter firstly and tell her how difficult fitting long sessions of child minding are in with work commitments. All the very best

I think this problem must be approached very carefully. You do not mention any other child, so I assume your DD is an only child and, as a result has been the main focus of you and you DH's life. She is used to you always being on call. This is at the heart of your relationship.

You need to disengage, but not find yourself in the same situation as some other parents, where a sudden withdrawal of help is seen by AC as a withdrawal of love.

My instinct is to do what you do gradually. Start to bring into ordinary conversation comments about feeling tired, that you have health worries and things like that. If they ask for something else , say you cannot manage it. Let them get the understanding that you are struggling, as you are, and cannot manage more.

Then in, say a month or more of this, suggest to your DD and SiL, that you need to re-assess how much care you can provide, and mention how inflation and rapid price rises over the last 18 months are making the cost of providing the care you do difficult fot you. Focus on petrol and travel costs.

^ and because our daughter is put upon, overworked, and lonely.^

Both your lives and theirs need a big rethink.

You are doing far too much. You mention work commitments and work in your post so I am presuming you both still work as well as providing childcare.
I am happy to help with childcare when required but I do one day a week and ad hoc pick ups and holiday time help. The rest of the time my daughter uses professional services.
She is your daughter can you not talk to her explaing how this is getting too much for you both.
Why are you staying in the evening can they not sort this out between them one looking after the children whilst one takes the other child to activities.