Oops

I often think with relatives and friends its best to go back to my grandmothers rule of having a set time for the visit. She would say "come to tea on sunday from 2-4 pm" and she meant it! Visiters, no matter how dear to her, were not allowed to outstay their welcome or her ability to cope with them.

At 4pm the clock would chime and she would say. "Ah, four oclock already. Time for my nap. Thank you for your visit. I will get your coat." And she did!

We never thought it rude because they were her rules and we knew them in advance.

Surely this is a wind up thread!

Adgm

Exactly this - thank you! People need to read posts properly before jumping in. Because my daughter knows the dogs so well she knows they would never do anything without provocation. However watching my sil allow the boys to chase and jump on the dogs was just terrifying for me and he didn’t seem to be able to control the boys to make them stop. Thank you

With respect Adgm your story has changed vastly along the way there was no mention of your soon in laws behaviour in the first few posts that was only brought in when you were being criticised for your support of your dogs

You started by saying the children ‘disrespected’ your dogs’
You called them brats and your son in law saw you googling how to disciplined children

That is what most posters picked up on and answered, then you ‘remembered’ he had let the dogs out and chased them with the kids I would have expected that to be in your first original post as that is far more important than ‘disrespect by a 2 and 4 year old !!!’

Keep them well apart next visit, lesson learned hopefully

I wonder if the first conversation needs to be with Adgm's daughter - mother-to-mother?
I don't understand why she didn't intervene when her children were potentially at risk. I do understand that the father is to blame for letting dogs out/children in but I would have expected her to back up the keeping dogs/children apart and then the OP would not have been policing alone.

Two adults working together could more likely have kept the rather juvenile dad in order!

Always good to address these things quickly

VioletSky

I bet you wouldn't if someone didn't like it Norah

They were, I said it, thought better of it, allowed to our daughter "Oh well, apple and tree, eh? I'm sorry dear one."

Daughter is fine, I'm fine, it's been years. They outgrew that particular phase, moved on to teen *********s.

Tongues slip. I apologise for anything and everything hurtful I say, profusely. All is well in my world.

I bet you wouldn't if someone didn't like it Norah

Goodness, I've referenced my quite perfect grandchildren as brats - thought better of it and moved on. BTW they can be!

Maybe VS.

One day Smileless I will say up and you won't say down lol

One day

No need to comment then is there.

meh

Can't be bothered with this nonsense today

I don't have to re read it VS but maybe you do.

Reread OP

Subsequent posts from the OP have provided more information but the story hasn't changed. She had boundaries in place for the safety of her GC and her dogs, and her s.i.l. chose to ignore them.

The OP accepts responsibility for and regrets referring to her GC as brats. Surely the main point and focus of this thread should be the stress and anxiety she suffered due to the juvenile and irresponsible behaviour of her s.i.l.?

The story has changed quite a lot so its difficult

"Brats" though, not good at all, that's something that actually happened that OP is actually responsible for

The father is the one who is being unreasonable as is the mother for assuming that because she knows the dogs, they wont react unless provoked.

Clearly the OP has a more realistic view and approach by keeping them closed in a room and not wanting the children in the garden with them.

I agree GSM the parents and particularly the father would be responsible had there been an incident.

A 2 year old is developmentally no where near learning boundaries. A 4 year old will have some boundaries, but needs supervision.

The dogs should have been behind a gate.

Neither the dogs or the children were unreasonable. The adults supervising them were.

Adgm, my dog is small and gentle too - but any dog can react badly to a sudden shock or painful experience. Yes, children should be taught how to interact with animals (e.g. never disturb them when they're eating or sleeping).

Still, supervision is vitally important, even after the tuition/training. I aim to protect the children and also the pets, by restricting access. We can't all be vigilant all of the time.

You are right GSM

I would have thought the parents of the child had most to lose.

It is all adults responsibility (unless in public and dog is off lead)

But it is the Dog owner who has the most to lose.. ie the dog

I don’t agree that in the circumstances described the owner of the dogs would be liable had they attacked the children. She had done all she could reasonably be expected to have done to keep the dogs away from the children. It would have been the sil who, in the circumstances described, would have been directly responsible for any injury.

it is the responsibility of the owners to not allow their dogs to be a nuisance or a danger to others

Which is why SIL should not have allowed the children into the LOCKED room where the dogs had been put or into the garden when the dogs were having a run, with the door shut!! A locked door is hardly "unclear" to anyone with an ounce of common sense

I do agree that:
* the dog owner would be held legally responsible
* there is a need for adult communication
* there is a need for absolute clarity about "rules" like not unlocking the door of the room the dogs have been put in and not letting the kids into the garden when the dogs are there having a run ...as clearly common sense appears to be lacking somewhere here!
* that the children are NOT to blame
*that children do not deserve to be called brats!

There is responsibility on ALL adults in this scenario, not just the dog owner!

Lucky girl is correct

It is the responsibility of the dog owner and the dog owner who will be held officially accountable if a child is bitten in public or private. The dog itself will also be at risk.

Especially when you consider that as much as we can teach children how to be responsible around dogs, the following risks are still there:

Some children are too young to teach

Some children may hurt a dog by accident

Some dogs may have unknown behaviour issues until exhibited

Some dogs may hurt a child by accident

Which is why OP is absolutely responsible to ensure the safety of the dogs and the children and must make sure her boundaries are enforced with visitors

Also OP should never beblaming the children or calling them "brats" for not being aware of how to treat dogs and not having experience for dealing with something that is often seen as plaything

This is a problem between adults and needs resolving before future visits