Grandparents being forced by daughter's ex partner to give money for grandchild's support

Poor child. Seems mother not capable health issues and the father feckless and a nasty character. If it were my grandchild I would want custody, all that would bother me us that she was dared for and loved as she should. I would contact social workers if she us not getting that care. Judging by all the child neglect and subsequent deaths when couple that were reported to social services though, the children were not protected, their deaths were avoidable.

Could the Child Support Agency advise? He should be supporting his children financially out of whatever resources he has available. There will come a point when you can no longer afford to chip in to support the children, now might be a good time to start moving to that position, so he can get used to it.

agree with MOnica.
are social services aware of the whole picture.
sounds like this should be raised as a safe-guarding issue.

My brother and SiL are currently being asked, by their daughter’s estranged ex partner, for money to support their grandchild. -- I feel that unless he agrees to a formal arrangement which gives my brother and SiL some rights of access to their grandchild, they should not be “blackmailed” into giving this man money which he is very likely to continue to ask for in future. Perhaps they will have to seek the advice of a family lawyer or will it be less stressful (they are already hugely worried about their daughter) to just pay up? They are both pensioners and already meeting the cost of some of their daughter's bills.

We pay for many nice things for our GC, because, and that's fine.

Maybe brother and sil could kit them out for school and sports, pay for lessons, clothing, other extras - perhaps that would work?

Grandmagrewit your brother and wife , could ofer to help with 'things' - clothing, shoes etc, much as Grannytomany mentions. His response will be interesting as to whether he really needs help, or is just after the money.

If this man is on bail for assaulting his new partner, he is the last person to have custody of this child. Although her mother cannot care for her, her father is not the only alternative. She could be taken into care, and in the circumstances you describe, it would be the better and safer thing to happen. This should not stop her grandparents from seeing her, nor her mother, and will enable her time with her father to be conbtrolled.

I cannot but say that the thought of leaving this child with a violent father, who sounds as if he sees her as a tool to be used to extort money from her mother's family, frightens me and she would be much safer in social care.

A unemployed single person claiming for one child on universal credit with no other income except child benefit will struggle to cover basic expenses. No doubt about that. We have someone in our family in that situation at the moment and we help out in similar ways to Grannyben above with gifts of shoes , school uniform, occasional treats and sometimes help with the cost of school outings and similar. There’s no formal arrangement but we are happy to help support our grandchild where we can.

My daughter is a single mum to two and receives universal credit to top up her wages. She is very good at managing her money but, I have to say, it is never about to cover everything that is needed. I wonder if your niece's ex partner is asking the grandparents for help covering these unexpected expenses, rather than asking for maintenance. I know with my own grandchildren I help out with things like school uniforms and, on a weekly basis, stock them up with fruit etc

What a sad situation. If I’ve understood your posts Grandmagrewit, your niece’s ex, the father of this child, is awaiting trial after assaulting his new partner. Social workers will take that seriously and will listen to your niece’s parents concerns that her mh problems were exacerbated by his treatment of her.
You don’t say how old the child is but you do suggest her grandparents can’t care for her as well as her mother. SW will try to keep her within her family but is her father a safe and reliable carer. It sounds as though the little girl needs to be subject to an assessment by the social work team

Thank you seadragon for suggesting the involvement of a social worker. I withheld quite a bit of background information from my OP in an attempt to keep it as uncomplicated as possible but, in fact, Social Services have already been involved in this case. After my niece and her ex-partner/father of her child split up, he went on to a new relationship and has since fathered another child with the new partner. Earlier this year, before my niece became seriously ill, she was contacted by Social Services to say that her ex partner had been arrested for the assault of this new partner who has now left him, together with her child. A court case is pending. Social Services wanted to know if my niece was willing for her ex-partner to still have shared care of their child and my niece was obliged to say yes because she could not cope without his input. My B and SiL could not take on full-time care of their grandchild as well as their sick daughter, who has been living with them until her condition became much worse and she was hospitalised. Social Services have not been involved since then but perhaps my B and SiL should approach them and ask for advice about the latest development.
I understand your comment Germanshepherdsmum about keeping this man "onside" but I'm sure you will appreciate just how hard this is for my brother and SiL who are only too aware of the threats he has made against them in the past. It has also become increasingly clear that many of my niece's mental health problems are related to the psychological abuse she received from her ex-partner before they split up. She always said he would do the same to his next partner - and he did. It's such a sad situation and I'm so worried for the health of my brother and SiL. Thanks for all your helpful and supportive comments.

i doubt the mother is receiving benefits as she is a long- term hospital in-patient.

As the father is out of work, he is presumably claiming benefits,( as well as the Child Benefit). This is probably Universal Credit, so he should inform them that he is now sole carer for the child, and his benefits will increase. This should enable him to cover basic costs and he should not need to come begging.

If the grandparents are concerned about the safety of the child they should contact the local authority.

Like minds, seadragon. I have reason to respect the work that many social workers do.

I note since posting that the partner’s mother is involved in care. All the more reason to tread very carefully.

Is the mother receiving any benefits? If so maybe she could contribute something to the care of the children.

Maintenance payments do not affect the amount of universal credit that you are entitled to.

As a hospital Social Worker in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's, this is the sort of situation I would be in a position to offer assistance with advice, support and practical help for all concerned..... I know my profession is now deeply unpopular thanks to decades if negative media reports but it may be worth checking if there is a social worker covering the ward where your daughter is being treated, especially of you have any concerns about the child's wellbeing and if , as you say, your niece is incapable of making decisions. There are a range of legal options that social workers can help the family to consider. Sadly the media - and the government - seem to have no interest in portraying social services as effective in any way.

Despite being a retired solicitor, albeit with no experience in family law, I don’t consider that seeing a solicitor is going to achieve much at this stage. Certainly telling the father that advice is being sought will only serve to inflame the situation.
Grandparents don’t have rights as such, though might be considered suitable to look after a child if the family unit breaks down/both parents are incapable of providing care, so at present everything has to be achieved by negotiation. Cabbie’s suggestion of paying for specific things is sensible. As has been said, if he were to declare money received his benefits would be affected - perhaps if that were pointed out to him he might reconsider, though he probably wouldn’t declare payments anyway. Maybe your niece and her husband could offer to have the child to stay, perhaps on weekends, which would ease the burden of feeding and caring for her then and she might be returned with something the niece sees she needs - clothing or a toy. It might be an idea to speak with a social worker at the hospital, who would be well placed to consider the longer term needs of the child and ensure an eye is kept on the situation. Above all I would try to keep him onside.

Sorry - just to clarify. The ex-partner IS the father of the child and has been looking after the child (on his own but with the help of his mother) for the past 6 weeks since my niece became ill and was subsequently hospitalised. Thanks for your comments - I too think my B and SiL need legal advice.

I think they need to check their situation with social services or citizens advice. Or a family solicitor. Asking for money is a concern and the fact they are not married may be an issue, I am not up to date with the legalities so advice might help. It must be very hard for them when their daughter is so ill.

If he is the father of the child and registered as father on the birth certificate then he does have parental rights, even though they were not married. The fact that he is receiving the child allowance shows some sort of legal arrangement has been made either before or after the mother was admitted to hospital.

Cabbie21

Could they perhaps say they will be responsible for getting the child kitted out with uniform, shoes and sports kit for September? That would be a substantial but practical contribution and they could see where their money has gone.

It is not clear to anyone, I guess, how long this situation will continue. Does he have a legal status as far as the child is concerned? Were they married, or does he have parental rights?

A good suggestion, thank you, although they have already bought many items for the child in the past. My niece and the father of the child were not married and have not lived together for more than 5 years. They have never had any formal arrangement for the care of their child, preferring to avoid solicitors, and opted for a shared care schedule. The child was registered with the father's surname so I assume he has parental rights. Sadly, the situation is further complicated by the fact that my niece is now mentally incapable of making any decisions about her child.

Is the ex-partner the father of the child?
As the child benefit is paid directly to him it would seem that he is.
Certainly the grandparents should not make any payment directly to him, and it sounds most unlikely that he would agree to any form of legal agreement recognising their contribution. It might also affect his benefits if he was known to be receiving extra money.
This is tantamount to blackmail, but if he is the child's father he can control who she sees., and if he is unemployed he is available for child care during the holidays.
As always legal advice; at least register his request for money and how he asks: pleading or threatening.

This is an awful situation

I think they need to talk to someone about this but I'm not sure who is best. Maybe start with citizens advice

I think the advice to only offer practical support in terms of offering to buy school uniform is a good one but only if they can afford it

is he not the child's father.
i've re-read the OP; it doesn't say he is not.
i assumed he was.
either way, they need legal advice.

The best thing for them to do is go and see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law.

Although their daughter may be in hospital long term she will be entitled to have say in how her daughter is cared for. Either way this man's bullying should be resisted and frankly the easiest way your B &SiL can put the 'frighteners' on him, is to say that they are seeking legal advice about making sure any arrangements between them will be recorded and legal as he is neither the childs mother nor father (unless he has formally adopted her)

If nothing else a solicitor can advise them how to handle this situation.

If they cannot afford legal advice, they can either go to Citizen's Advice and seek advice there or approach Social Services expressing concern about thise man's demands and how he may treat their grand daughter if they do not agree to them.

Could they perhaps say they will be responsible for getting the child kitted out with uniform, shoes and sports kit for September? That would be a substantial but practical contribution and they could see where their money has gone.

It is not clear to anyone, I guess, how long this situation will continue. Does he have a legal status as far as the child is concerned? Were they married, or does he have parental rights?