Disciplining grandchildren when in my home

unless this was a one-off and they were all going out somewhere special.
This is my point, really. We just don't know, and it does make a difference. Does the OP look after them when the daughter is at work? She doesn't say that, I don't think (I may have missed it, but I don't think so). It's not clear whether the 18 month old is the daughter's or not, either - she is described as a cousin and also as her daughter's child.

Seriously - does a granny babysitting her grandchildren really equate to a mother taking advantage? My mum didn't look after mine, but I'd be very happy to babysit for my grandchildren if I have them, and wouldn't see it as being taken advantage of.

The ins and outs of this story are not important. What is important and your DD and SIL need to face up to is :-
A . Their children need their parents love and attention
B , You are being expected to do far too much.
As for the tap on the bottom - ok it shouldn't have happened, but it did and the reason for that was your escalating anxiety over the mayhem that was happening. Putting you in that position is unfair and unnecessary! to your GC and you.
I have referred many times on GN about similar situations - when we give childcare it is on our terms , simple as that! We are doing our AC massive favours , it is NOT the other way round. I have enjoyed GM duty when my GC were on their pre school years - one day a week for many years. I still stand by GMs house , GMs rules . It worked for me and my AC fully agreed. Result - happy GC, happy AC and happy me !
I sincerely hope your DD and SIL reflect on what has happened and put their children and you first.

Getting the mother back because the child threw a tantrum IMO was not a good move.

They will feel unable to ask you again.

Notjustaprettyface

That’s exactly what I think tickingbird
She has 3 children aged 5, 3 and 18 months
I think she finds it too much looking after the 3 on her days off

We had three children under 5, and two much older children and I worked full time.

It was awfully hard work and I was permanently knackered BUT always made some time for my children, I always wanted a large family and it’s one of the downsides of having one.

Perhaps you should have a very discreet word with your daughter, she may not be coping well.

I think your daughter is a selfish person. You are taking on too much and I certainly wouldn’t do it. She could go in the huff as long as she likes if that was men and I would put my foot down and say I am not doing it anymore. YOu have a life and stop letting her walk all over you.

Should say me and not men, sorry.

One of my grandsons used to get into terrible rages, you just had to sit it out, there would be absolutely no question of cuddling him, although I always tried.
It wasn’t so bad if I was at home, but I’m on several occasions I was out and about, and I couldn’t lift him, he would fight me if I tried.
Eventually he would calm down, but I would leave things to go at his pace, wouldn’t approach him till he approached me for a cuddle, and it would all be over.
But I never ever smacked him, I don’t think you should ever smack someone else’s child.
I can see it’s all a bit odd, and your daughter has a bit of a cheek for blaming you, maybe there’s more going on than you’re aware of.

Purplepixie

I think your daughter is a selfish person. You are taking on too much and I certainly wouldn’t do it. She could go in the huff as long as she likes if that was men and I would put my foot down and say I am not doing it anymore. YOu have a life and stop letting her walk all over you.

I am really not seeing this in the OP at all. What am I missing?

The daughter works three days a week. What has that got to do with her asking her own mum to babysit her two children, and what do the activity days have to do with anything, other than to imply that the mother is in some way negligent? Either the gran wants to spend time with the children or she doesn't, and I don't see how it matters if the daughter works or not.

The gran can say no, and can definitely suggest that an overnight stay doesn't happen at the same time as she is also looking after another grandchild (the cousin) overnight, unless there is a family event that both sets of parents need to attend, and she is the only person able to help out.

A child having a tantrum is not uncommon if they are tired, but the gran couldn't cope with it, hitting the child and calling the mother back from wherever she'd gone, then expecting to be given an apology.

The gran doesn't understand why her daughter expected her to deal with the child in her charge, yet people are calling the daughter selfish and saying she's taking advantage of her mother. I have tried to see the other side of this, and I really can't. I agree that the OP was stressed by the situation - she acknowledges that she didn't know how to handle a distressed 5 year old - but I just can't see how hitting him and calling the mother back is a proportionate response, and nor can I see how the daughter is taking advantage.

Sorry - is the OP minding the children when the mum is at work? And who is the 18 month old?

I do think the ins and outs of the story are important. There are very different connotations depending on those ins and outs.

Doodlebug she said the 18 month old is a cousin
Well if the mother works 3 days sends the boy to activities 2 days then gives him to grandma for a sleepover on the other day ( from afternoon till next morning plus ) sounds a big advantage take where s the mum and child time ??

notjustaprettyface your daughter works three days a week why doesn’t she look after her own children (apart from necessary appointments or some leisure time) on the other four days Of course the little lad was upset sounds like he’s palmed off a lot .
I think you got into a panic and made a few wrong judgements calling the mum or dad back and hitting the little boy but I also think it sounds as if your children are taking the pxxx and dumping a lot on you

I d set some ground rules for the mother,

Thanks for the explanation, BlueBelle.

But whether or not posters approve of the mother working, if the gran is not looking after the children to allow this, it is irrelevant (plus five year olds are at school most of the time) and still doesn't explain how she is being taken advantage of. She's not. Even working mothers enjoy a night out now and then , and it's not unusual for them to ask their own mothers to babysit. How many MILs would love to be the fallback grandparent in these situations?

It's slightly different if the OP is helping out during the day too, but even then, there is not enough to go on as regards the sleepover. If the daughter is out for the evening with her sister or brother (so the gran is looking after all the children) is it for a wedding or other family event, or just a casual night out? That is more than 'ins and outs' - it makes a difference to the seriousness of being called back when the gran couldn't take responsibility for a misbehaving five year old.

'Activity days' can be childminding by another name, or they can be hobbies/fun things that children enjoy and ask to go to. Again, the fact that the child goes to these does not impact on the OP, and sending him is not taking advantage of her - I'm still not getting it.

This isn't about being taken advantage of - it could be about shifting the blame for hitting the child and incurring the daughter's displeasure, or it's about disapproval of the daughter for working (both by the OP and PPs), which I find rather unpleasant. Mothers can't win - if the family claims benefits they are criticised, but if they work the mother is criticised (no mention of the father's work, or what he thinks about activity days). It's very unfair.

If the OP doesn't want to babysit her grandchildren she just has to say no - easy. Far better to do that than to imply the mother is uncaring on the internet.

I’m now a tad confused, does OP have two grandchildren both 18 months old? She mentions she had an 18 month old “cousin” there, but then later went into to day her daughter had three children, 5,3 and 18 months?

Also re the kids activity days, lots of these schemes run for a week, where you pay for the whole week? Maybe that’s why he went all week.

I’m really unclear about whether OP has the children when Mum is at work.

Need a bit more info please

Say not day

I agree with Doodledog in that we perhaps need a bit more detail.

And clarification about who the three children belong to.

I think that the question was actually whether it’s granny’s responsibility to deal with ‘episodes’ on a sleepover. I’d say it definitely is, and I’d be quite happy to deal with it.
It would hardly be practical to have to summon the parents when something needed dealt with.

Well there are two sides as always, OP was obviously very stressed by the situation, three small children can be challenging enough, without one having a meltdown.
But it would have passed, and as others have said. What was the reason for the sleepover? Special occasion? Date night? Or just a break from them.
I think I would have stuck it out regardless, but maybe in future not have had three at a time.

I think the granny has one daughter with children 5 and 4 and another with children 5, 3, and 18 months and on this particular day she had the 5, 4 and 18 month old on a sleep over

About the mum working I wouldn’t in anyway knock that, what I was remarking on is if the daughter works three days a week, sends the child or children to a day centre activity thing on two days and the grans on the sixth day when does she have her children ? no wonder the boy is unsettled or even unhappy

However if it’s just a one off night out then that’s a different story altogether but we don’t know
Anyway it all sounds too much for granny maybe better to have them one or two at a time and not three

Yes unless extreme circumstances granny deals with problems when she has them, but not by smacking them, a big misjudgement

I think you are brave to have admitted to tapping your GS and aware that you were at end of your tether. It seems completely unreasonable to expect you to look after 3 very young children.. I think a family meeting is in order where you all speak honestly about expectations and boundaries.. and look at the needs of these children..

OP, you are very critical of your children and seem to think they should constantly be apologising to you (reading your previous posts). Perhaps you need to take some time away from them and concentrate on your husband’s, and your own needs atm. By standing back you may see that your expectations of them is a little unreasonable and you can start to mend your relationship with them.

I read it as the grandson and his sister staying over, not sure about the 18month old as the OP doesn't say. I couldn't cope with three little ones sleeping over on my own (luckily I have a hubby to help) but I would say so and not have all three at once.

However the OP says she has done it before and it was fine.

In answer to the original question I do think it is the responsibility of the caregiver to deal with a situation that arises whilst they are looking after the child - but not by "tapping" them on the bottom, which won't help anything.

Keeping calm and using distraction are the way to go.

If my GS was still very upset after a period of time had elapsed, I would phone my daughter and asked what she wanted to do.

Still not sure why the OP thinks her daugther should apologise

What do I think? I think is you took on too many children at one time, too many for a sleepover certainly. I think you shouldn't tap a child's bottom. I can't think of any reason "important" enough for this situation.

I'd decline any one on one GC time for the foreseeable future. Your daughter could, perhaps, manage her life differently, or you could yours.

Sago

Getting the mother back because the child threw a tantrum IMO was not a good move.

They will feel unable to ask you again.

The child was distraught and wanted his mother, not throwing a tantrum and the OP had every right to call the mother back. As for feeling unable to ask her to have them again? I doubt it.

tickingbird

Sago

Getting the mother back because the child threw a tantrum IMO was not a good move.

They will feel unable to ask you again.

The child was distraught and wanted his mother, not throwing a tantrum and the OP had every right to call the mother back. As for feeling unable to ask her to have them again? I doubt it.

Well I think we can agree to differ on this!
So many red flags and, with the benefit of hindsight, much which I expect OP would want to do differently another time.
Why three children? You could refuse to have children from two families if you are on your own, but 3 siblings might be different.
That said, an 18 month old is no longer a baby and all 3 children should be capable of feeding themselves.
How did the 5 year old get out of the house to “chase after his mothers car” ? Major safety issue here.
Presumably the children are in school/preschool on term time so why would 2 activity days (holiday club?) tire the five year old more than a week at school? And why would he be missing his mother when she is at work normally?
Perhaps the method of leaving the children needs to be addressed?
Settling them in, spending time with Mum and the children at grans house, alternative activities or distractions (god bless CBeebies) might ease the separation if that is a problem.
Discipline is tricky. You don’t “tap” any child on the bottom, not even your own these days - and in any case, is that perhaps not a euphemism?
Bottom line is that OP did have too many children to babysit at once singlehanded especially if they were likely to kick off.
Shortly after DH died, I was asked to have D1’s three (7, 6 and 3) over the weekend as she was in a very bad place- so I enlisted my sister in law to help overnight and youngest son in law (no kids) to help out with outdoor activities n the Sunday. Having GC overnight is not necessarily selfish on the part of our adult children, many grans would give their right arm to have the kids over - but if you genuinely feel you are not up to,it it is better to say so, or enlist help rather than damage what should be a loving relationship.
Since DH has died I am more honest about my limitations (and how many hands I have !) and used to prefer a max of 2, but now they are all of school age it is not a problem
PS what did Mum have to apologise for?
She should have asked GS to say sorry to granny .
There is a lot of ground still to make up and OP’s relationship with her own AC and expectations of childcare are at the heart of it.

Exactly, RM2.