Wrap around child care -the child’s voice

Could have added, it is now coming to , either people having no children, or less than before.

Used to be 2.4 children, as recent as the 90s
Now 1.4 children I think.

To my mind, a lot of it all comes down to house prices, wherther mortgage or rent.

Once upon a time, only 1 parent needed to work.
The 1 parent and 1 with a part time job.

I cant see house prices changing any time soon, unless there is an economy collapse.

nightowl

That’s a very valuable perspective Harris, thank you. I feel quite sad for children who spend their whole week in nursery or wraparound child care. There is a large nursery at the end of my street and I see all the comings and goings throughout the day.

I’m sure many children have gone through this system and as others say ‘it hasn’t done them any harm’. But I would like to think there is more to childhood than not being harmed. I believe childhood should be a happy time, where children are allowed to grow and develop at their own pace with adults who love them. Of course there is a role for nurseries, but in my opinion, not for babies and not full time. We as adults find the demands of full time work exhausting, so goodness knows how children experience those long days, forced to get along with different adults and children they may not like.

I agree with others, there should be more focus on supporting parents to spend more time with their children at all ages, and a recognition of the importance for society as a whole of nurturing those relationships.

I couldn’t agree more, Nightowl, and can’t help feeling sad at the way life has changed, meaning parents feel forced to work full time, be it for financial or career reasons.
I’ve always felt that the role a parent or carer has to play in a child’s development has become greatly undervalued, and many feel that attending nursery is the only place a child can learn. I think of the learning opportunities I ( and my children) had, all through play, interaction with peers and with other adults, and realise that nowadays it would not be appreciated that any learning was taking place. Now, a child goes to a nursery where they will play with a plastic replica kitchen or shop, whereas we made our own from scratch, using whatever we could find. How many skills were developed doing those things?
Of course, it is a changed world, but I still find it difficult sometimes to get off this particular hobby horse! I’d like more early years money paid directly to parents so they could stay at home and be really involved in creating a loving learning environment for their child.

I set up my own cleaning business (very small) better paid, less stress
I missed being with the children but best decision I ever made
Retired a month ago

My own daughter, now mid 30s, has decided not to have children as wouldn't use nursery and doesn't want to give up her career. I can see her point

I too am a qualified NNEB, but a low salary meant I looked elsewhere and became a Project Manager who travelled a fair amount abroad. With no family support, which I didn’t expect, my children had childminders, nursery and an au pair, for more hours when I became a single parent.
Was it detrimental to my children? I don’t know, I think their father leaving caused more issues for my youngest child that me working, which I’d always done.

eazybee

Ziggy 62, haven't heard any of your previous comments, but couldn't agree more about NNEBs; properly trained, properly qualified, with a good understanding of child development. Does the training still exist? For the first twenty years of teaching every school (Primary) had an NNEB. Moved to a different part of the country and never saw one again, replaced by mothers helping then TAs.

No sadly NNEB is no more.

Most nurseries only pay minimum wage, it's hard work, long hours.

Not the job, vocation it once was

Harris27

Easy bee it’s now been replaced with level three in childcare. This takes approximately 18 months to comp,etc. all sections have to be approved and passed by a trainer. My file is at least four inches deep. We are now replacing the level 3 in some nurseries with on job training as apprentices are hard to encourage as childcare is poorly paid for nursery practitioners. Childcare in the private section has taken a hit on the 3/4 year olds as the government has applied more funding to babies and toddlers. Also the government has allocated money to schools to reopen their nursery’s but this will only apply to three thirty Finnish’s.wheras private are open longer hours.

I don't mean to offend but you say your file is at least "4 inches thick".
Any NNEB nursery would find this astonishing. Our 2 year full time course included one week in college/one week in placement covering every aspect of childcare from birth to 8 years including hospitals, home settings, schools, nursery, playgroup etc
The paper work, exams, constant evaluation would have been far more than 4 inches deep (sorry)
We had to prove what books we had found info.
If we didn't pass a particular module after 2 attempts we didn't go on to complete the course
I could go on and on and on

We have Mr Blair to thank for introducing the NVQ level 3 and the phasing out of the NNEB and sadly nursery childcare is suffering.

I've worked in nurseries where the room leader fed a child with a pasta allergy, tinned spaghetti thinking it was the same as tinned beans.
Medication was forgotten and parents were lied to rather than staff admit their error.
A child was handed over to the "wrong grandmother " who planned to leave the country with her!!!
At this point I left.

Yes I have stories similiarBarbidasobelle. I always say when I retire I will write a book!😂never had any as bizarre as yours though! We were once asked if we opened Boxing Day? I’ve sat many a Christmas eve till 5,30 waiting for the last parents to turn up🫣.

.... with nightowl that is .....

I agree.

.

We have friends who own two very successful and well respected and rated pre-school Nurseries for 3-month-olds to pre-schoolers.

With no names given (not that we'd know them anyway) they've had some very odd experiences that they've related to us. Some funny, some not-so-much.

One set of very successful and well-to-do parents were always late picking up their (c) 12-month-old child at the end of the day. Often swanning up nonchalantly up to 45-minutes after the last collection time of 6:30pm.

One Christmas they were shocked to be asked if they would consider taking the baby girl into their own home for a week after Christmas and over the New Year - as they wanted to go on a skiing holiday!! They were willing to pay them an obscene amount of money to do so.

They obviously said "no" and pointed out quite firmly that they were a 5-days-a-week day facility, not a boarding school.

Eventually they had to ask them to leave as the pick-ups stretched even later, sometimes to 8:00pm and my friend had her own children to get home to (albeit nearby).

Many parents also asked if they would consider a long weekend boarding of their babies as - "We just must get away, we really do need a break"!!

She could write a book!
.

It's virtually impossible for a young family to run a household on a single salary these days and if they've no family support for school drop offs/pick up, sickness days or school holidays every 6 weeks, what is the alternative?

Easy bee it’s now been replaced with level three in childcare. This takes approximately 18 months to comp,etc. all sections have to be approved and passed by a trainer. My file is at least four inches deep. We are now replacing the level 3 in some nurseries with on job training as apprentices are hard to encourage as childcare is poorly paid for nursery practitioners. Childcare in the private section has taken a hit on the 3/4 year olds as the government has applied more funding to babies and toddlers. Also the government has allocated money to schools to reopen their nursery’s but this will only apply to three thirty Finnish’s.wheras private are open longer hours.

Ziggy 62, haven't heard any of your previous comments, but couldn't agree more about NNEBs; properly trained, properly qualified, with a good understanding of child development. Does the training still exist? For the first twenty years of teaching every school (Primary) had an NNEB. Moved to a different part of the country and never saw one again, replaced by mothers helping then TAs.

That’s a very valuable perspective Harris, thank you. I feel quite sad for children who spend their whole week in nursery or wraparound child care. There is a large nursery at the end of my street and I see all the comings and goings throughout the day.

I’m sure many children have gone through this system and as others say ‘it hasn’t done them any harm’. But I would like to think there is more to childhood than not being harmed. I believe childhood should be a happy time, where children are allowed to grow and develop at their own pace with adults who love them. Of course there is a role for nurseries, but in my opinion, not for babies and not full time. We as adults find the demands of full time work exhausting, so goodness knows how children experience those long days, forced to get along with different adults and children they may not like.

I agree with others, there should be more focus on supporting parents to spend more time with their children at all ages, and a recognition of the importance for society as a whole of nurturing those relationships.

What are single parents expected to do?

A very sad state of affairs. Could there be a link between unrealistic expectations being placed on children and the pathologising of normal child like behaviour?

Well this is from a professional view. I work in a nursery fully qualified level 3 and beyond. The quote from NNEB is very dated we have the same qualification and constantly update this through the years I’ve worked. Point being we provide a service and the nursery is open between 7.30 to 5.30 therefore the care is offered. Personally I think parents need to think how long a child is in nursery half the time they’re going home tea bath bed and starts again. I know times are hard and people have to work but it’s ridiculous the amount of time the children are in nursery. They go straight from. Nursery to school and they are there 16 +.

skunkhair63

It worries me that babies are put into Nurseries full time from 9 months or 1 year old. This seems to be the norm nowadays and I wonder what the long term effects might be. It’s so different to how I raised mine - life seems more pressured for parents nowadays in many ways. It’s so Mums can keep their foot on the career ladder…

My two went to nursery full time from three months old, and it didn't do them any harm whatsoever. Quite the opposite, in fact - they were very independent and sociable from an early age. And it's not all about keeping your foot on the career ladder - for many parents, it's a necessity now.

I agree with the OP.

But unfortunately this situation is born of the need for both parents to work in order to make ends meet and because both partners do not want to lose out career wise. Personally I think that is short-sighted. When we are young parents we do not have perspective to realise how short this phase of our lives is and how long the stretch of work/career to come when that is over.

I absolutely agree that investing in helping parents to remain at home more is sound - but the child care juggernaut rolls on blindly.

We juggled work so that one of us was around as much as possible when the children wee little - I was entirely prepared to sacrifice a bit of career progression for their sakes. And for ours as we loved being with them.

I find early years care particularly unnatural. By unnatural, I mean that all children have to eat their lunch, have their nap, play on the toys all at the same time, (due to staffing organisation).
But what choice do young parents have for their children if they need to work or further their careers?
The best parents I observe devote their entire weekends and evenings to their children to compensate for this. I admire them, but it must come at a personal cost too.
I don't have an answer.

I know many adults in the 40 ish age groups who had parents working full time. These young people are now parents, many with children moving into the high school age group. They’re growing up with working parents as their own parents did.
Attachments are secure, family life child centred and families negotiating the ups and downs life throws at us.

It’s all ok

It worries me that babies are put into Nurseries full time from 9 months or 1 year old. This seems to be the norm nowadays and I wonder what the long term effects might be. It’s so different to how I raised mine - life seems more pressured for parents nowadays in many ways. It’s so Mums can keep their foot on the career ladder…

keepingquiet

No one cares about childen anymore, pure and simple.

Sorry but this is not true and quite frankly offensive to parents who have no choice but to work full time. A mortgage and household bills now very often require two full time wages.

I don't see how wraparound care means parents don't care about their children. The pressures of family life now are very different from when we had our children and some parents simply have no other option because of their jobs. As long as the children are being properly cared for, I don't have a problem with it.