Husband too soft with GCs

M0nica

I am sure the grandfather here has done nothing intentionally and he is just responding to what the child does, but sometimes we have to think beyond the innocent situation in the home and see it from a hard outside impersonal vieww.

Whatever the reason, if at school or in the play ground or with friends this child is regularly using actions that inadvertently or not, target the genital area, then, since this is not the way most children play, it is going to attract attention, and concerns will arise.

Schools have a high responsibility of protection for all children and if one child is seen acting inappropriately, then the school must act to protect other children.

Personally, if any child or grandchild of mine was regularly hitting the genital area when playing I would say to them the first time that they must be careful not to hit or kick that area of anyone's body when playing, second time, I would admonish them and remind them.

Third time I would stop the rough and tumble and end the play. If the adult just walks away and refuses to respond to pleas or tantrums, the message will get through. After the adult playing stops the play the moment the child hits the genital area every time it happens, however 'inadvertent', the child will, eventually, get the message.

I am sure the grandfather here has done nothing intentionally and he is just responding to what the child does, but sometimes we have to think beyond the innocent situation in the home and see it from a hard outside impersonal vieww.

Whatever the reason, if at school or in the play ground or with friends this child is regularly using actions that inadvertently or not, target the genital area, then, since this is not the way most children play, it is going to attract attention, and concerns will arise.

Schools have a high responsibility of protection for all children and if one child is seen acting inappropriately, then the school must act to protect other children.

Personally, if any child or grandchild of mine was regularly hitting the genital area when playing I would say to them the first time that they must be careful not to hit or kick that area of anyone's body when playing, second time, I would admonish them and remind them.

Third time I would stop the rough and tumble and end the play. If the adult just walks away and refuses to respond to pleas or tantrums, the message will get through. After the adult playing stops the play the moment the child hits the genital area every time it happens, however 'inadvertent', the child will, eventually, get the message.

KatyaStrings

Caleo

KatyaStrings

M0nica

Was he as tolerant and accepting of ill discipline with his own children when they were young?

If he was, he is past prayng for

If he wasn't ask him nicely to justify his different standard.

The 'grabbing goolies' game has to stop now. I would put the frighteners on him, point out the connection with sexual abuse, point out the problems this 'game' could cause his grandchildren when they start school, how rigid and inflexible the rules are. Does he want his grandchildren excluded from school, social services and the police investigating their home and parents and him

He was softer than me when our kids were young. But we co-parented very well. There were 5 of them so we never had time to 'dote' on them or give them hours of individual attention.

It's a very different dynamic with the grandchildren. I think he is trying to be 'superGrandad' and do everything in his power to keep them happy. I will talk to him about how we used to successfully parent together, and how we can bring that into our grandparenting. He himself has said he doesn't enjoy having the kids so much now as it clearly stresses me out, so I think he will be ready for a serious conversation about it.

It's not grabbing goolies. The child does it in quite a sly way - a quick punch or elbow that looks like an accident. Once or twice it has landed on target and hurt him badly and the child has seemed quite smug. It's not exactly a rough-and-tumble thing but the boy tends to run at men and clamber on them, and the goolie punch is part of that. I've seen him do it to his dad and
too. You are right, it's a behaviour that needs to stop and I am putting the family on high alert about it.

He has taught an impressionable child a hateful behaviour. As MOnica said " Put the frighteners on him " .

No, he hasn't taught the child this behaviour! My husband sees the 'accidents' as simply that. Because husband is busy being clambered on, he can't see the deliberate attempts on his gonads like I can from across the room. Whereas I can see a pattern in the child's behaviour - I saw him do it to other men in the family before he did it to his grandfather. It probably stems from the child doing it once and getting an extreme pain response from a grown man, which he found interesting. The same child also has a habit of slyly stepping on peoples toes. I always wear strong shoes when he's around!

"Has taught" does not in his case deliberate teaching. "Has taught" means inadvertently teaching.

I wish that I had spelled this out, but I would have thought it unnecessary to point out that your husband's motives were innocent.

Despite that your husband's motive was innocent his behaviour with the little boy sends him the wrong message.

Your husband cannot understand how this grandparently rough and tumble is not good training for his small grandson. Therefore it would be good for the little boy if you could persuade your husband to behave more politely.

I hope you don't take offence at my phraseology and I have much the same opinion of child rearing as the rest of the Grans

The next time hewants to take them to a restaurant, make it clear you will not be going if they are allowed to behave as they like. He can deal with them on his own.

And through this the main lesson I have learned is to never ever throw myself to the sharks on here again. The feeding frenzy is off the scale.

This thread is following a depressingly famililar path.

Welp. I'm going to stop looking at this thread now.

My husband is clearly a paedophile, my boisterous grandson a sadist in the making, the little boy is a total delinquent for standing up in his chair and I am destroying their future by never ever telling them off.

(Thank you for those who have given wise counsel rather than pouring scorn and judgement on my head. You know who you are :-).

And through this the main lesson I have learned is to never ever throw myself to the sharks on here again. The feeding frenzy is off the scale.

Blue Belle that wasn't aimed specifically at you, I posted in the wrong place.

BlueBelle

This 6 year old sounds totally out of control on a lot of levels Hitting, punching, stomping on peoples feet and standing on his chair in a restaurant What do his parents think of his behaviour have you ever discussed your concerns with them I think they really need to know what’s going on
Needs a family pow wow I think

Welp. I'm going to stop looking at this thread now.

My husband is clearly a paedophile, my boisterous grandson a sadist in the making, the little boy is a total delinquent for standing up in his chair and I am destroying their future by never ever telling them off.

(Thank you for those who have given wise counsel rather than pouring scorn and judgement on my head. You know who you are :-).

And through this the main lesson I have learned is to never ever throw myself to the sharks on here again. The feeding frenzy is off the scale.

I assume you have tried to discuss this quietly with your husband when the children are not present and got no where.

If so, either you try again and tell him that you will not put up with children that age behaving badly in public, nor will you put up with him being nasty to you for checking a child in public.

At home, I would suggest that the wild games are allowed for a specified lenght of time, but not all the time.

What do the boys' parents think about this?

I would have been most annoyed with my father if he had encouraged this kind of behaviour all the time when he had his grandchildren with him.

You might get somewhere if your stepdaughter and her husband agree with you, rather than with your husband.

How does a little kid know to kick in genital area? Is this genuine?

This 6 year old sounds totally out of control on a lot of levels Hitting, punching, stomping on peoples feet and standing on his chair in a restaurant What do his parents think of his behaviour have you ever discussed your concerns with them I think they really need to know what’s going on
Needs a family pow wow I think

Yes, of course I tell him to stop in no uncertain terms! But he is very skilled at making it look accidental.

Well as you know full well it's deliberate, you need to tell him he's having rather too many accidents for your liking and it needs to stop.

I'm finding it hard to understand how one six-year old is being allowed to rule the roost.
You're doing him no favours.

V3ra

^No, he hasn't taught the child this behaviour! My husband sees the 'accidents' as simply that. Because husband is busy being clambered on, he can't see the deliberate attempts on his gonads like I can from across the room. Whereas I can see a pattern in the child's behaviour - I saw him do it to other men in the family before he did it to his grandfather. It probably stems from the child doing it once and getting an extreme pain response from a grown man, which he found interesting. The same child also has a habit of slyly stepping on peoples toes. I always wear strong shoes when he's around!^

So as you've personally witnessed this repeated, deliberate and unpleasant behaviour I presume you've read the riot act spoken to your grandson about it?
Has anybody else?

Yes, of course I tell him to stop in no uncertain terms! But he is very skilled at making it look accidental.

One possibility you might consider is to a) take photos of them with your phone when this unacceptable behaviour is happening, or b) enlisting help from a close friend to take some photos of this behaviour. When you have enough photos to prove that this is not a one off situation, then I would start planning.

Try and arrange for a time when you are with the parents , but the children are either in bed or elsewhere. Then you can engineer the conversation to some of the behaviour, and ask in a calm way if they do the same things at home or are they allowed to behave like that at school playtimes. If the parents either genuinely dont know what you are on about, because the children do not behave like this elsewhere, you say oh look I have a couple of photos from last wednesday etc and show them. That way you are not speaking in an accusing or sort of tell tale way, but quite innocently showing what happened last time etc. Then you can take your lead from their reactions. Now I can see that this could cause problems between your husband and you, but at least the subject will have to be addressed, and this should lead to everyone knowing what exactly is happening and what needs to change.

I am with the others in that , if after you have had this discussion, the behaviour carries on, then every time I would collect your coat or whatever and leave. If you have one car, then I would also take that and leave without stating a time you will be back. This will mean he has to deal with the children, either get a taxi to take them home, or contact the parents and explain that you have gone out and they need to collect them. If that does not ring alarm bells with the parents , then I think there is a bigger problem that it now appears, and would be very concerned about the situation.

Whatever the outcome, he has shown poor judgement at the least in his treatment of you and of the children. He is as you say wanting to be mr nice guy, but he is not their age, although he is behaving as if he was, and the children will learn at some point in the future - preferably sooner rather than later - that their behaviour will gain them no friends and they are more likely to be seen as bullies and parents of other children may decide that they do not want them to be part of their childrens friends. So in the long term , he is actually making things much worse and his lack of adult judgement needs to be addressed. If he becomes very defensive when spoken to by either the parents or you, then it is something that really needs to be addressed for his sake too. But whatever happens , you are NOT wrong at all in your feelings and attitudes , and you have every right to refuse to be any part of this scenario. As an intelligent adult you are right to make sure the parents know what is happening and then it is their responsibility to deal with both the children and the father. Not only are you behaving as a responsible adult should do in these circumstance but you are clearly showing your husband that there are lines that he may not cross and get away with. I hope things can be resolved in a positive way but from what you have said , there is definitely a situation that needs to be dealt with and at the earliest possible time. You might mention to your husband that he might not enjoy this if he allowed it to go on until they were as strong as he is and he would come off worse!! If only selfish things matter to him the thought that he might get hurt could have some force!! Good luck and dont let him try to con you ,that you are in any way responsible for whatever happens next. Should he blame you that his behaviour is no longer tolerated without realizing that he has been behaving in a totally unacceptable way then I would simply state that in the same circumstances you would speak up in the same way.
I do hope that things can improve, but whatever happens you are correct in seeing it as something that must be dealt with.

I think Katya you need to talk to your husband and explain that by not reprimanding his grandsons rather sadistic behaviour not only the low blows, but stamping on peoplesfeet etc he is encouraging it and if he loves the grandchild it needs to be stopped before he gets into BIG trouble at school

The child is just 6 years old he needs this rather vicious behaviour stopping as of now You too aren’t reprimanding enough because you said you put on stronger shoes while he’s around you shouldn’t need to change your shoes you stop him immediately and use whatever punishment you normally use time out/ losing a treat, whatever you see fit but it needs stopping, what next hurting animals or small children

Is this the same one who was standing up on his chair in the restaurant ?

Stop That Right Now
is all that needs to be said.

But alert the parents in case he does this at school - or if someone at school is doing this to him.

No, he hasn't taught the child this behaviour! My husband sees the 'accidents' as simply that. Because husband is busy being clambered on, he can't see the deliberate attempts on his gonads like I can from across the room. Whereas I can see a pattern in the child's behaviour - I saw him do it to other men in the family before he did it to his grandfather. It probably stems from the child doing it once and getting an extreme pain response from a grown man, which he found interesting. The same child also has a habit of slyly stepping on peoples toes. I always wear strong shoes when he's around!

So as you've personally witnessed this repeated, deliberate and unpleasant behaviour I presume you've read the riot act spoken to your grandson about it?
Has anybody else?

Do we need a little history here. How was he as a Dad? Is he trying to make up for something? Or maybe his own dad was a little harsh. Maybe involve Mum as set a few ground rules?

Your husband is encouraging them to grow up into selfish adults. We had four grandsons and from the word go they knew their place and how far they could go. They came to stay with us one weekend a month, we never had any trouble with them, they need to be taught how to behave, good manners dont cost a penny.

I agree. This is a small child who has learned that he can target a very specific place which will cause pain and yet be tolerated. As others have said, if he learns it’s ok he will probably try it at school & before they know it the parents will have a safeguarding issue on their hands. Your DH is undermining his GKs’ future as human beings by his ‘no boundaries’ attitude. He seems to think he’s in a popularity contest. That’s all about building his ego & not about loving the GKs & wanting the best for them.

Sounds like a sadist in the making.
Yet everyone finds it amusing ?
Concerning.

Caleo

KatyaStrings

M0nica

Was he as tolerant and accepting of ill discipline with his own children when they were young?

If he was, he is past prayng for

If he wasn't ask him nicely to justify his different standard.

The 'grabbing goolies' game has to stop now. I would put the frighteners on him, point out the connection with sexual abuse, point out the problems this 'game' could cause his grandchildren when they start school, how rigid and inflexible the rules are. Does he want his grandchildren excluded from school, social services and the police investigating their home and parents and him

He was softer than me when our kids were young. But we co-parented very well. There were 5 of them so we never had time to 'dote' on them or give them hours of individual attention.

It's a very different dynamic with the grandchildren. I think he is trying to be 'superGrandad' and do everything in his power to keep them happy. I will talk to him about how we used to successfully parent together, and how we can bring that into our grandparenting. He himself has said he doesn't enjoy having the kids so much now as it clearly stresses me out, so I think he will be ready for a serious conversation about it.

It's not grabbing goolies. The child does it in quite a sly way - a quick punch or elbow that looks like an accident. Once or twice it has landed on target and hurt him badly and the child has seemed quite smug. It's not exactly a rough-and-tumble thing but the boy tends to run at men and clamber on them, and the goolie punch is part of that. I've seen him do it to his dad and
too. You are right, it's a behaviour that needs to stop and I am putting the family on high alert about it.

He has taught an impressionable child a hateful behaviour. As MOnica said " Put the frighteners on him " .

No, he hasn't taught the child this behaviour! My husband sees the 'accidents' as simply that. Because husband is busy being clambered on, he can't see the deliberate attempts on his gonads like I can from across the room. Whereas I can see a pattern in the child's behaviour - I saw him do it to other men in the family before he did it to his grandfather. It probably stems from the child doing it once and getting an extreme pain response from a grown man, which he found interesting. The same child also has a habit of slyly stepping on peoples toes. I always wear strong shoes when he's around!

KatyaStrings

M0nica

Was he as tolerant and accepting of ill discipline with his own children when they were young?

If he was, he is past prayng for

If he wasn't ask him nicely to justify his different standard.

The 'grabbing goolies' game has to stop now. I would put the frighteners on him, point out the connection with sexual abuse, point out the problems this 'game' could cause his grandchildren when they start school, how rigid and inflexible the rules are. Does he want his grandchildren excluded from school, social services and the police investigating their home and parents and him

He was softer than me when our kids were young. But we co-parented very well. There were 5 of them so we never had time to 'dote' on them or give them hours of individual attention.

It's a very different dynamic with the grandchildren. I think he is trying to be 'superGrandad' and do everything in his power to keep them happy. I will talk to him about how we used to successfully parent together, and how we can bring that into our grandparenting. He himself has said he doesn't enjoy having the kids so much now as it clearly stresses me out, so I think he will be ready for a serious conversation about it.

It's not grabbing goolies. The child does it in quite a sly way - a quick punch or elbow that looks like an accident. Once or twice it has landed on target and hurt him badly and the child has seemed quite smug. It's not exactly a rough-and-tumble thing but the boy tends to run at men and clamber on them, and the goolie punch is part of that. I've seen him do it to his dad and
too. You are right, it's a behaviour that needs to stop and I am putting the family on high alert about it.

He has taught an impressionable child a hateful behaviour. As MOnica said " Put the frighteners on him " .

Katya, I think you have arrived at a sensible compromise, in discussing this with the family. I posted on the other thread, where a grandfather was being " grumpy" and my message is the same here - are these behaviours that you would be happy for your grandchildren to replicate, or not?
I think that you have decided correctly.

Cossy

Jaxjacky

I think the focus on genital bashing and any connotation is over the top and I’d be most offended if someone made those comments about my husband. Common behave amongst young/teenage boys, your husband needs to grow up.
I agree with BlueBelle take them out separately if your comments aren’t listened to, let your husband deal with any scrapes, bumps and bruises.

I utterly agree.

Granddad is loving being “one of the boys”, clearly adores his GC, thinks it’s a Grandparents role to spoil GC. These children are still pretty young, definitely need some boundaries, and I’m sure if you speak to him you can reach a compromise.

Cossy - yes, that's it in essence. I think when we were parents it was clear what the day-to-day boundaries ought to be so we respected each others ideas on where they lay. But as GPs, we don't see the kids that often - once a month or so - so its less clear. The boundaries are muddied by his desire to 'spoil' them, his own playful boyish energy, forgetting what boundaries are needed, and respecting the parents' boundaries too.