Bach flower "remedies" no longer licences.

Same old, same old?

The Placebo Effect is very curious. If something can make us feel better then it points to the body being able to control pain, for example, by suggestion....a bit like hypnosis.

So the question arises just how does it do that?

If this programme is 'same old' then I'll be disappointed as I'd like to know if we're any nearer working out the physiology and/or psychology behind it.

I thought it was well recognised that mind and body are inter-linked.

But I have never experienced a placebo effect.

I was reading something earlier about the placebo effect in some Parkinson's patients causing dopamine to be released in the brain. Where I was reading it, cannot locate.
But it was still the case that placebo effect only affects symptoms.
yes I think it is aka - brains and bodies are just a bundle of very complicated chemistry after all.

But then most medication only affects symptoms Jess. Very few miracle cures come from medication alone, if any. And no side effects from the placebo effect. I will be watching it

I wonder whether side-effects could actually manifest themselves in some people if they were told they were likely? (using a placebo, of course)

There is a programme about the placebo effect on BBC2 tonight

Yes, Roderick, that's why this thread has been resurrected. I do not know how Jingle can say same old, same old before she's seen the programme.
Obviously she is not open to the idea. Will you be watching it, Jingle?
From what I've read about it, it sounds an intriguing programme, but I would say that, wouldn't I?

I only expect it to be same old same old. Can't watch tonight but might watch on catch-up. (if you're really interested)

Thank you Roderick

And I'll answer my own question. Yes, of course they could!

I was still thinking about it Ana!

Sorry! You may have a different answer, of course. When you've thought about it...

It sounds like you will get your answer tonight, Ana.
Some people say that homeopathy is the placebo effect.
I once had sciatica, and could not stand without being in pain. I went to a reflexologist, who happened to be a sports physio for a football team and also used homeopathy.
He gave me a tablet, called bellis, which is the daisy.
The sciatica disappeared after a week.
The next time it came back, I bought some bellis, and took one. My hands and face became swollen and I was having difficulty breathing. I called the GP who told me to take an antihistamine, which worked.
I haven't dared take bellis since, but I do take other homeopathic tablets, so it's not the effect of other things in the tablets. They are all made the same way, just the one ingredient changed.
Any explanations welcome.

Yes, odd. That reaction can't be explained by the 'suggestion' theory. Perhaps it was like a bee sting, once can be fine but the next can cause an allergic reaction.

So, are you saying, nightowl, that when an antibiotic medicine deals with an infection and the patient recovers from the symptoms caused by the infection, that the medicine has "only affected the symptoms", or would you say that the medicine has dealt with the infection?

Don't anti-inflammatory medicines reduce the inflammation that cause pain? Is that affecting the symptom or affecting what causes the symptom (I'm assuming the symptom is pain in this case)?

It would depend on how prone to hysteria the guinea pig was.

(That was in reply to Ana's question)

Or open to suggestion? I don't think they'd necessarily have to be prone to hysteria!

Well that raised more questions than it answered, very thought provoking. I think we underestimate the potential of the body to heal itself, given certain catalysts.

But it certainly cast a light on how homeopathy etc work.

No bags I agree that antibiotics affect the infection. However, I think that very often, the body can deal with infection on its own. Thats not to say that I don't think antibiotics are useful. I would say that all medication, of any kind, only supports the body to heal itself. Which is where I think the placebo effect comes in.

In my post above I was thinking of medication for chronic conditions, for example my OH is on a cocktail of meds for heart problems, all of which only suppress his symptoms, many of the meds have horrible side effects, and all seem to interact with one another to cause more problems. They are undoubtedly helping to keep him alive, but they are certainly not a cure, and if he stopped taking them tomorrow nothing would have changed.

Posts crossed Aka, I haven't watched the programme yet (got involved in the programme about Amanda Knox) but we seem to be saying the same thing about the body healing itself.

Or Ana more open minded.....certainly nothing to do with hysteria.

If we can find the way to harness that ability Nightowl

Aka, did you read my original post? I wasn't questioning the 'placebo effect', just wondering whether a negative expecation would produce a similar result.