Benefits and Bypasses.

No one likes to lose an argument and some people genuinely do not want to argue ; some may want to keep what they really think till they are with like minds. Myself i really enjoy your posts, GT and find myself in agreement with you.

No, I dont enjoy arguing.
I dont think I am your sparring partner.

I found myself agreeing with people on some threads, and disagreeing with them on others. So I just wouldnt do!

Surely that is natural soon. You would not expect to have exactly the same opinions as someone else.

I suppose you could argue that some people smoke all their lives and live until their nineties, while others could get a smoking-related illness earlier in life.

I would hope that people could learn from their mistakes and try to live a healthier lifestyle, but I would also hope that the NHS would be there for those in need.

However, I would draw the line at a young person getting sick notes to get benefit because she wants to lie in bed and stuff her face with food. Then again, someone is aiding and abetting her - the GP to keep giving her sick notes and a friend or relative who fetches the food for her.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-being-overweight-means-you-live-longer-the-way-scientists-twist-the-facts-10158229.html

Why thank you kindly amarmai I deliberately keep off some threads where I have strong views but the topics are sensitive and I would not want to hurt someone. But on the political threads , I think if you can't stand the heat..... And you really can't start a thread like this and not expect to provoke strong reactions - my first post did say, didn't it? I also think that you should be able to engage in a coherent discourse if you put forward something thst is clearly provocative.

I object to the emotive language used here with regard to obesity :"stuff her face". These people are human beings and have needs.

Agree entirely, GT!

But some of the discussions on GN can veer quite quickly from the general to the particular and personal, which is a pity but might put someone off engaging if they are worried about being attacked? Can't say I have seen much evidence of that here, though.

I dont think that we have argued GrannyTwice?

Greenfinch. In real life, I agree a lot with a lot of people. You have just made me realise that perhaps I am very very lucky in that respect.

Teetime. I presume that for you, the gains outweigh potential losses? Or is it a mere gamble?

Addiction must be a terrible thing, they have no control over their own lives. You would think that some bright spark would have found something that would help with addictions

I do appreciate that it must first come from the individual to want to stop what ever it is they are addicted to, but the alcoholic on the show did genuinely want and need help, just not the right kind of help was offered aswell as the medical side they need some other kind of help.

Character building, life coach, I do not know, but something!

Yes perhaps my expression 'stuffed their faces' was a bit much. I do understand that people have needs but if you have been told by a doctor to eat less before your op, then at least you could try a little bit. I'm not saying it's easy.

I do agree KatyK

I did feel a little sorry for the large girl, when she cried, I do believe they want the help, they want to get better, they just do not have the skills to do so.

The large girls Mother did not help much either, did she, I think she should be stricter with her, I know she is a grown women, but there must be something she could do like stop making her white bread stodge sandwich's

I think people are missing the point in trying to micro-manage every single accident, or cause of accident. Have a look here, the conditions that are so significant that they risk bankrupting the NHS are all ones that can be addressed by eating, drinking, and smoking less, and exercising more. By comparison all the accidents, including those of “idiots who go mountain climbing” only account for a few percent of the total, so there’s not much point in arguing about whether they count as self inflicted. Many people regard cyclists as looneys for running the gauntlet of the traffic, but the benefit they gain from exercise adds seven times as many life-years as they lose to traffic accidents and pollution put together. On the other hand there aren’t any health benefits at all to be gained from smoking.

People fret over the tiny risks that are outside their control, whilst ignoring the huge risks that they have the power to reduce. Like those who desert the railways for the much more dangerous roads after a train crash makes the headlines.

durhamjen your post Wed 08-Apr-15 16:36:37

Thank goodness for that!

I didn't see the programme, but I do think other people such as a parent, social carers or a GP could help by not helping someone to help themselves to so much food that they become like that and have to claim sickness benefits.
Was this the young girl from Wales where they had to remove a wall from the house because they couldn't get her out when she needed to go to hospital? Quite honestly, that is child abuse, I know she is now an adult but she didn't get like that overnight.

It is a very complex argument, I do agree, however, it is never good to inflict ill health on yourself without thinking of the consequences, or without caring about the consequences.

I think the worse part of the programme for me was when the girl that was pregnant, was smoking!!

Crun - I think you are missing the point . The discussion some of us were having was about self inflicted illness/injury and for some of us the unacceptability of using that as a method of deciding who should receive free health care. And some of us have made the point that dealing with issues of overeating, drinking too much, smoking etc require action at the micro and macro level. At the micro/ individual level, it's hugely complex to help people to change their behaviour and habits as the causes are usually multi- factorial. At the macro/ policy level have you seen how well organised various industries etc are in ensuring that governments do not take effective action?

GT

A/I have no problem with arguing apart from the fact that I do, in point of fact, have other things to do in life which are either more important or more interesting.

B/I also do not see why divergent opinions should lead to an 'argument' rather than reasoned debate. The very use of the word supports my decision not to participate further in this thread.

C/I was commenting on a specific programme with a specific group of people which a great number of posters on this thread did not appear to see.

D/ People did not appear to see the programme and then responded in generalities which were not necessarily appropriate to the individuals shown in the programme.

Perhaps comments should be reserved until posters have actually seen the subject matter

But you did ask a general question at the end of your post and many of us did not understand that you had required us to watch the programme. You should have said that only those who watched are qualified to respond

Only saw the last 20 minutes but that was depressing enough. So many people seem unable to differentiate between opinion and fact. A doctor who tells you to stop smoking isn't expressing an opinion, he's stating a fact. So many people also seem to think that doctors are just trying to stop them enjoying themselves. If the doctor told my MiL anything about her ailments her reaction was always "That's just what he says"

GT the point I was trying to make is the difference between self inflicted conditions that break the bank, and the ones that have a much smaller effect on the budget, because that's the answer to the questions about where do you draw the line.

Would it not be unreasonable and, possibly illegal – to withhold treatment for so-called self-inflicted illnesses while still expecting those suffering from them to pay full taxes?

What about those who have not paid full or any taxes (I'm only referring to NI and income tax here)? Would there have to be a sliding scale?

I think 'stuff your face' is just a slang expression and not offensive. This evening I had dinner then stuffed my face with a piece of cake which I did not need but it was left over from the weekend and I couldn't bear to waste it.
However, tomorrow I will make allowances for that and not stuff my face.