Benefits and Bypasses.

Teetime. I presume that for you, the gains outweigh potential losses? Or is it a mere gamble?

I dont think that we have argued GrannyTwice?

Greenfinch. In real life, I agree a lot with a lot of people. You have just made me realise that perhaps I am very very lucky in that respect.

Agree entirely, GT!

But some of the discussions on GN can veer quite quickly from the general to the particular and personal, which is a pity but might put someone off engaging if they are worried about being attacked? Can't say I have seen much evidence of that here, though.

I object to the emotive language used here with regard to obesity :"stuff her face". These people are human beings and have needs.

Why thank you kindly amarmai I deliberately keep off some threads where I have strong views but the topics are sensitive and I would not want to hurt someone. But on the political threads , I think if you can't stand the heat..... And you really can't start a thread like this and not expect to provoke strong reactions - my first post did say, didn't it? I also think that you should be able to engage in a coherent discourse if you put forward something thst is clearly provocative.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-being-overweight-means-you-live-longer-the-way-scientists-twist-the-facts-10158229.html

I suppose you could argue that some people smoke all their lives and live until their nineties, while others could get a smoking-related illness earlier in life.

I would hope that people could learn from their mistakes and try to live a healthier lifestyle, but I would also hope that the NHS would be there for those in need.

However, I would draw the line at a young person getting sick notes to get benefit because she wants to lie in bed and stuff her face with food. Then again, someone is aiding and abetting her - the GP to keep giving her sick notes and a friend or relative who fetches the food for her.

Surely that is natural soon. You would not expect to have exactly the same opinions as someone else.

I found myself agreeing with people on some threads, and disagreeing with them on others. So I just wouldnt do!

No, I dont enjoy arguing.
I dont think I am your sparring partner.

No one likes to lose an argument and some people genuinely do not want to argue ; some may want to keep what they really think till they are with like minds. Myself i really enjoy your posts, GT and find myself in agreement with you.

Oohhh didn't realise we had

Of course I do soon - on the appropriate threads. I rather thought you did as well < sly dig in ribs, wink, wink>

Many of us on GN have only known the NHS - the health of the poor before the NHS was heartbreakingly bad. I remember seeing a programme on the creation of the NHS - a retired GP said he could hardly believe the terrible problems that come to him once it was available. He was almost in tears as he spoke of women who had had multiple pregnancies with very poor care coming to him with prolapsed wombs and all that went with that. I'm not romantic about the NHS but it's a bit like democracy - all the other systems are worse

I expect you could start a thread, and invite anyone who wants to argue with you onto it?
That is probably not against the rules so long as you make it clear what you are doing.

Oh. I see. You enjoy arguing GrannyTwice.

Poor people in American use the emergency room hospitals. Taking time away from urgent care for seriously ill or injured. Luckily they are triaged. It's not a good answer for chronic illness that need long term treatment.The cost is absorbed by passing on to paying insurances and other people that can pay.iIt's not fair..increases costs for all.What can you do? you can't get blood out of a turnip or put them in debters prison. Yet to see if Obama care really will make a difference. I will say im glad to have affordable health insurance from Obamacare since my husband retired.

What is it with GN that some people don't want to argue?

Unpleasant thread = people disagreeing with OP

Well - it doesn't seem to work that way in America. Those with the worst health have the worst health care and the link is poverty. I think it would be impossible to get some people to appreciate the long term damage they are doing to their health. And if limits were imposed, what on earth would you do when those limits were reached? Do what they do in Ametica and let them go untreated? And the a NHS is far more than a safety net - it's a foundation of a decent society. What would you do about a drunken driver pulled from a car crash whose treatment and rehab will cost hundreds of thousands?

There are risks inherent in life and there are self imposed risks.
I'm not going to comment any further as I don't want another unpleasant thread to develop.

I totally 'get' that people gain weight/smoke/drink for all sorts of reasons but I watched something last year about people waiting for gastric bypasses etc. There were two sisters on it sitting in their kitchen stuffing their faces and joking about being 'on the list for a bypass and couldn't wait'. I know it's hard, I could do with losing a few pounds myself and struggle, but I try. When I hear of people having surgery/boob jobs on the NHS because they are depressed it makes me cross. When all my hair fell out a few years ago, there was no help for me and I was suicidal after other awful events in my life, it was the final straw. No one (apart from family) cared. I was told 'get a wig'. My sympathy levels are low with SOME of these people.

This subject is a dangerous minefield. Some cancers are self-inflicted but who is to judge? What about babies whose mothers smoked and drank when they were pregnant ?Should treatment be unavailable to them? Nobody deliberately makes themselves ill. There is always a medical, social or emotional explanation. Would you leave an overdose victim to die? And some illnesses are more "acceptable" than others eg physical illnesses generally command more sympathy than mental health problems.
The OP mentioned obesity which always gets a bad press though there may be a genuine reason for it either physical or emotional. Anorexia is much more sympathetically regarded .Why?
I didn't see the programme mentioned but we need to be very wary of these benefit fraud programmes in the run-up to the election. Could there be a hidden agenda?

Oh dear what is an what isn't self inflicted?

I just had a piece of cake when I could have had a plum.
I sometimes exceed the speed limit when driving.
I worry about all kinds of things when I could just chill out.
I had children knowing it was risky for me.
I play golf when I know my arthritic back doesn't like it.
When I worked I lifted patients that were too heavy for me and damaged my back.
I wore shoes that were bad for my feet.
I have often had more glasses of wine than recommended.
I write things on here that I think may get a backlash and then I'm upset and have sleepless nights.
Sometimes I 'forget' to take my medication.

Sounds like I'm a real risk taker doesn't it.

I sometimes wonder if the safety net provided by the NHS is counterproductive in some ways. Would people take more care of themselves if they knew there was a limit to what the NHS would provide?? The young lad in last night's prog had an array of asthma/chest medication but his consultant firmly told him all that was wrong with him was smoking. His response? He's just going to carry on smoking because he enjoys it. Cue years of NHS treatment/cost. We've just had friends lose 17 year old daughter to leukaemia, how much better would it be to spend money on leukaemia research? NHS is already starting to prioritise treatment options based on age, given the increasing demands of an increasingly elderly population this is only going to become more common.